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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:32 pm 
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piratefan1970 wrote:
I would start by NOT trading Wilson or Sanchez, and go out and get Roy Halladay or Jake Peavy for starters, then pick up a big bat, like the one that they traded away for almost nothing last year (Bay)

I don't even think those are smart moves.
I think a good move would have been last year holding onto Bay, but there is no reason for the bucs to trade for top pitchers they need to sign good pitchers in free agency and other players.

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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:40 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
piratefan1970 wrote:
I would start by NOT trading Wilson or Sanchez, and go out and get Roy Halladay or Jake Peavy for starters, then pick up a big bat, like the one that they traded away for almost nothing last year (Bay)

I don't even think those are smart moves.
I think a good move would have been last year holding onto Bay, but there is no reason for the bucs to trade for top pitchers they need to sign good pitchers in free agency and other players.


Ok Ryann, so tell us then: how would you "sign good pitchers in free agency and other players" and field a team of 25 players for $80 mil (league average). We'll continue waiting.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:44 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Ryann wrote:
piratefan1970 wrote:
I would start by NOT trading Wilson or Sanchez, and go out and get Roy Halladay or Jake Peavy for starters, then pick up a big bat, like the one that they traded away for almost nothing last year (Bay)

I don't even think those are smart moves.
I think a good move would have been last year holding onto Bay, but there is no reason for the bucs to trade for top pitchers they need to sign good pitchers in free agency and other players.


Ok Ryann, so tell us then: how would you "sign good pitchers in free agency and other players" and field a team of 25 players for $80 mil (league average). We'll continue waiting.

I will at some point I have time to.
I short.
12 Million on bay
50 million on rest of team.
Use other 18 million to sign a few key free agents.
You get like 4 high price great players, the rest of the below average buccos combined with those 4 pricey players (Doumit and rest of team minus andy and moss) would field a damn good team.
If you need to make moves in the future you trade those pricey players for prospects after they run out their use and you must resign your high end young talent (Mcutchen)

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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:46 pm 
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I think that we are about to discover that Ryann is just as good at math as he is with english.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:52 pm 
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BBF wrote:
piratefan1970 wrote:
I would start by NOT trading Wilson or Sanchez, and go out and get Roy Halladay or Jake Peavy for starters, then pick up a big bat, like the one that they traded away for almost nothing last year (Bay)


So you would spend your $80 mil on 3 players and hire 22 scrubs at minimum wage for the rest of the team. Ok, I guess I can't argue with that. :roll:

Can't reason with idiots, BBF.

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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:54 pm 
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Willton wrote:
BBF wrote:
piratefan1970 wrote:
I would start by NOT trading Wilson or Sanchez, and go out and get Roy Halladay or Jake Peavy for starters, then pick up a big bat, like the one that they traded away for almost nothing last year (Bay)


So you would spend your $80 mil on 3 players and hire 22 scrubs at minimum wage for the rest of the team. Ok, I guess I can't argue with that. :roll:

Can't reason with idiots, BBF.

Your the New Jersey Pirate Fan

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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:55 pm 
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Quote:
Your the New Jersey Pirate Fan
.
The kid doesn't miss a thing, does he?


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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:02 am 
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bradf wrote:
Quote:
Your the New Jersey Pirate Fan
.
The kid doesn't miss a thing, does he?

Nope, not a thing. He's very observant. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:04 am 
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Ryann wrote:
BBF wrote:
Ok Ryann, so tell us then: how would you "sign good pitchers in free agency and other players" and field a team of 25 players for $80 mil (league average). We'll continue waiting.

I will at some point I have time to.
I short.
12 Million on bay
50 million on rest of team.
Use other 18 million to sign a few key free agents.
You get like 4 high price great players, the rest of the below average buccos combined with those 4 pricey players (Doumit and rest of team minus andy and moss) would field a damn good team.
If you need to make moves in the future you trade those pricey players for prospects after they run out their use and you must resign your high end young talent (Mcutchen)


Ok junior. A couple problems. First, 4 great players plus 21 below average players would NOT field a good team. If you believe that, then I guess our conversation is over. Might be the dumbest conclusion ever reached on this board.

Second problem, $18 mil isn't going to get you a "few key free agents". $18 mil will get you 3 average free agents, 2 above-average free agents, or ONE key free agent.

Third problem, Bay, or Bay-type players, cost more than $12 mil, even in this depressed market.

I'll give you a second chance, though. Go for it!

PS I also note your willingness to trade pricey players for prospects...you cheapskate. I suppose you'll just pocket the profits :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:06 am 
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BBF wrote:
Ryann wrote:
BBF wrote:
Ok Ryann, so tell us then: how would you "sign good pitchers in free agency and other players" and field a team of 25 players for $80 mil (league average). We'll continue waiting.

I will at some point I have time to.
I short.
12 Million on bay
50 million on rest of team.
Use other 18 million to sign a few key free agents.
You get like 4 high price great players, the rest of the below average buccos combined with those 4 pricey players (Doumit and rest of team minus andy and moss) would field a damn good team.
If you need to make moves in the future you trade those pricey players for prospects after they run out their use and you must resign your high end young talent (Mcutchen)


Ok junior. A couple problems. First, 4 great players plus 21 below average players would NOT field a good team. If you believe that, then I guess our conversation is over. Might be the dumbest conclusion ever reached on this board.

Second problem, $18 mil isn't going to get you a "few key free agents". $18 mil will get you 3 average free agents, 2 above-average free agents, or ONE key free agent.

Third problem, Bay, or Bay-type players, cost more than $12 mil, even in this depressed market.

I'll give you a second chance, though. Go for it!

PS I also note your willingness to trade pricey players for prospects...you cheapskate. I suppose you'll just pocket the profits :lol:



:lol: :lol: :lol: NICE


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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:28 am 
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BBF wrote:
Ryann wrote:
BBF wrote:
Ok Ryann, so tell us then: how would you "sign good pitchers in free agency and other players" and field a team of 25 players for $80 mil (league average). We'll continue waiting.

I will at some point I have time to.
I short.
12 Million on bay
50 million on rest of team.
Use other 18 million to sign a few key free agents.
You get like 4 high price great players, the rest of the below average buccos combined with those 4 pricey players (Doumit and rest of team minus andy and moss) would field a damn good team.
If you need to make moves in the future you trade those pricey players for prospects after they run out their use and you must resign your high end young talent (Mcutchen)


Ok junior. A couple problems. First, 4 great players plus 21 below average players would NOT field a good team. If you believe that, then I guess our conversation is over. Might be the dumbest conclusion ever reached on this board.

Second problem, $18 mil isn't going to get you a "few key free agents". $18 mil will get you 3 average free agents, 2 above-average free agents, or ONE key free agent.

Third problem, Bay, or Bay-type players, cost more than $12 mil, even in this depressed market.

I'll give you a second chance, though. Go for it!

PS I also note your willingness to trade pricey players for prospects...you cheapskate. I suppose you'll just pocket the profits :lol:


So how the fuck will 50 million dollars work. It won't get over it.

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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:43 am 
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Ryann wrote:

So how the fuck will 50 million dollars work. It won't get over it.


You are missing the point. $50 mil won't work. $80 mil won't work. UNLESS YOU BUILD THE MINOR LEAGUE SYSTEM FIRST. How dense are you that you can't see this?

Bringing in $18 mil in free agents now is like wiping before you shit. Doesn't make much sense, does it? The point is that NH is on step one. When step one is complete, then you move on to step 2- supplement roster with talented free agents. If we get to step 2 and Nutting won't spend the money, then everyone here will be bitching, including everyone you've labeled and apologist.

Step 1 sucks because it involves trading away talented players, players to whom fans are attached, and players who will probably still be successful elsewhere. BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THIS. You have to build the farm before ANYTHING else will make a bit of a difference.

And here is the thing that you don't seem to understand: its always going to be risky. Some trades will look genius (Nady trade), others won't (Torres trade) and some will be a mixed bag. Prospects won't always pan out. But that doesn't make it a bad strategy. And it is far different from what Dave Littlefield did. That should be crystal effing clear to just about everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:45 am 
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BBF wrote:
Ryann wrote:

So how the fuck will 50 million dollars work. It won't get over it.


You are missing the point. $50 mil won't work. $80 mil won't work. UNLESS YOU BUILD THE MINOR LEAGUE SYSTEM FIRST. How dense are you that you can't see this?

Bringing in $18 mil in free agents now is like wiping before you shit. Doesn't make much sense, does it? The point is that NH is on step one. When step one is complete, then you move on to step 2- supplement roster with talented free agents. If we get to step 2 and Nutting won't spend the money, then everyone here will be bitching, including everyone you've labeled and apologist.

Step 1 sucks because it involves trading away talented players, players to whom fans are attached, and players who will probably still be successful elsewhere. BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THIS. You have to build the farm before ANYTHING else will make a bit of a difference.

And here is the thing that you don't seem to understand: its always going to be risky. Some trades will look genius (Nady trade), others won't (Torres trade) and some will be a mixed bag. Prospects won't always pan out. But that doesn't make it a bad strategy. And it is far different from what Dave Littlefield did. That should be crystal effing clear to just about everyone.


Minor League system my ass. Our minor leagues are dead last in their class. And this is rebuiliding plan 5 the same shit has been going on for the last 17 years except each new gm is supposed to be a magic fairy who can fix everything.

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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:51 am 
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Ryann wrote:

Minor League system my ass. Our minor leagues are dead last in their class. And this is rebuiliding plan 5 the same shit has been going on for the last 17 years except each new gm is supposed to be a magic fairy who can fix everything.


Weren't you the one on here just a day ago saying we had the 15th best system? I believe that was you.

Ryann, 07/08/09 wrote:
I would say it is around 14 in the major leagues..


And it was in the bottom third prior to NH arriving. So in less than 2 years, he has DRAMATICALLY improved the system. If he was doing the "same shit has been going on for the last 17 years", then wouldn't it still be ranked 27th?

If you are really mentally handicapped, just admit it and we'll all be easier on you.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:11 am 
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15th best system, 27th best major league team. we lost ALL of our major trading pieces so now what? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:18 am 
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Ryann, you are losing your argument. Acceptance is the first step. It's okay, there are a lot of dummies in the world. You are just one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:41 am 
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JimY wrote:
Ryann, you are losing your argument. Acceptance is the first step. It's okay, there are a lot of dummies in the world. You are just one of them.

I am winning. My points are proven by the team record.

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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:02 am 
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Ryann wrote:
JimY wrote:
Ryann, you are losing your argument. Acceptance is the first step. It's okay, there are a lot of dummies in the world. You are just one of them.

I am winning. My points are proven by the team record.

The team record has nothing to do with the strength of the farm system.

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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:15 am 
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Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
JimY wrote:
Ryann, you are losing your argument. Acceptance is the first step. It's okay, there are a lot of dummies in the world. You are just one of them.

I am winning. My points are proven by the team record.

The team record has nothing to do with the strength of the farm system.


I really don't really think Ryann is off by having our system ranked 14th. I have it ranked 15th and i think one or two others said 14th also.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you build the Pirates?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:04 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
I really don't really think Ryann is off by having our system ranked 14th. I have it ranked 15th and i think one or two others said 14th also.

I don't disagree with the mid-range ranking; what I disagree with is the patently false notion that the Pirates' farm system hasn't improved dramatically post-Littlefield, and is set up to continue to do so.

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