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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:44 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
You don't care about the Pirates winning.

On the contrary, that's exactly what he cares about. He just cares more about sustained winning than instant gratification.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:52 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
You don't care about the Pirates winning.

On the contrary, that's exactly what he cares about. He just cares more about sustained winning than instant gratification.


You care about fireworks, bobbleheads, and old rock bands. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:54 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
You don't care about the Pirates winning.

On the contrary, that's exactly what he cares about. He just cares more about sustained winning than instant gratification.


You care about fireworks, bobbleheads, and old rock bands. :roll:

What is this, juvenile name-calling? Um, I know you are but what am I?

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:55 pm 
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Of course not I stated why you are into the Pirates. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:09 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Of course not I stated why you are into the Pirates. :oops:

Right, because you know me SO well.

When does summer camp start, Ryann?

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:31 am 
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Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Of course not I stated why you are into the Pirates. :oops:

Right, because you know me SO well.

When does summer camp start, Ryann?


When does .500 start wilton? 2012?

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:32 am 
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You are one clueless kid, Ryann.

"We suck!" - Ryann on Tuesday

"We could win the division if we still had Bay" - Ryann the next day

I'll say it again. The talent isn't there YET, but it's getting better with these trades. Just have some patience and give the rants a rest. Nothing worthwhile comes quickly, but I realize your generation instant gratification has no concept of that...YET.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:32 am 
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Remember El Puerco Wilton.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:15 am 
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VanSlick wrote:
You are one clueless kid, Ryann.

"We suck!" - Ryann on Tuesday

"We could win the division if we still had Bay" - Ryann the next day

I'll say it again. The talent isn't there YET, but it's getting better with these trades. Just have some patience and give the rants a rest. Nothing worthwhile comes quickly, but I realize your generation instant gratification has no concept of that...YET.


Your generation had old time baseball with teams more competiitve and championships were possible for the Pirates.
My generation has witnessed 17 losing seasons, 5 failed rebuilding plans, and bobbleheads. Look where I am coming from, the pirates have had previous rebuilidng plans, why should I buy into this one??

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:00 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Your generation had old time baseball with teams more competiitve and championships were possible for the Pirates.

You are correct. The first full season I remember following as a kid was 1971.

Ryann wrote:
My generation has witnessed 17 losing seasons, 5 failed rebuilding plans, and bobbleheads. Look where I am coming from, the pirates have had previous rebuilidng plans, why should I buy into this one??

Fair question. I believe that the answer is the following:

  • Prior administrations did not try to retool the roster, bottom up, by adding high level players.
  • Instead, they selected safer and cheaper players in the draft, and supplemented them with mediocre free agents.
  • Not surprisingly, that tactic caused the massive ineptitude that is the cause of your unhappiness.
  • However, the task of re-building the team, from the bottom up, is not pleasant.
  • It requires trading valuable assets like Nady, Bay, McLouth.
  • Cam Bonifay and David Littlefield would never have dealt Bay, Nady and McLouth in less than 12 months. Never.
  • Cam Bonifay and David Littlefield also would never have stockpiled high-end young talent like Milledge, Morton, Hanrahan, Ohlendorf, Daniel McCutchen, Hansen, Alvarez, Miller, Grossman, etc. NEVER.
  • Instead, they would have selected safe, limited players in the draft (Moskos, Bullington), and sought to add some grade C- free agents like Joe Randa, Derek Bell, etc.
  • That is a recipe for 70-75 wins, and nothing more.
  • Huntington has blown up that approach. His trades net young players - every time, without exception. No Ty Wigginton's in this group.
  • Please read Moneyball. I just finished re-reading it. The theme behind the book was that one organization - the A's of the late 1990's and early 2000's - won a ton of games with a payroll well below league average. Well below.
  • The book points out that payroll is no guarantor of success. It is an asset, since a team can acquire proven talent, but the point is to get good players, not expensive players.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:42 am 
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Actually, Bonifay would and did make those trades.

Remember, his early years he did it right. He got lost or bashed, or something by McClatchy later on as 2001 approached, and he panicked.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:25 am 
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I give Ryann credit. That was your best post I've seen. Sincere and honest.

I think Bucfan said it all very well. Hunnington is doing it the right way. Considering he has only been on the job for less than two years, he has done a lot already. Rebuilding from the ground up (farm system), instead of buying washed up players to try and fill seats and quiet the fans.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:28 am 
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Hey, lay off the old rock bands!! Those "old rock bands" give a little comfort to a homsick guy like myself who is stuck in Maryland. HELP!


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:58 am 
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Ryann wrote:
VanSlick wrote:
You are one clueless kid, Ryann.

"We suck!" - Ryann on Tuesday

"We could win the division if we still had Bay" - Ryann the next day

I'll say it again. The talent isn't there YET, but it's getting better with these trades. Just have some patience and give the rants a rest. Nothing worthwhile comes quickly, but I realize your generation instant gratification has no concept of that...YET.


Your generation had old time baseball with teams more competiitve and championships were possible for the Pirates.
My generation has witnessed 17 losing seasons, 5 failed rebuilding plans, and bobbleheads. Look where I am coming from, the pirates have had previous rebuilidng plans, why should I buy into this one??


Great post Ryann. You are absolutely right. Anyone under that age of 23 or so cannot remember a Pirate Winning Season. You did not live through all the Division championships like us older guys...plus the World Series and more.

Now, this is a good post Ryann.

But from my experience, I think Huntingdon is doing it the right way. I really believe he is building the organization from the bottom up, which is what you have to do. I think he has a better grasp at judging talent than the last couple of management teams. Also, I think he is not afraid to pull the plug on something and admit he made a mistake, like releasing Monroe. Prior management teams would never have done that, and done is so quickly, as it would have meant admitting a mistake.

Try to keep the GOOD posts coming@!

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:32 am 
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I tip my hat to Ryann for saying what the "younger generation" is thinking..but take it from someone who has seen baseball since 1971, THIS is how you begin to build a championship club. You have to build your team from the ground up. As a small market team, the farm system is CRUCIAL to building a winner. NH had very little in the farm system when he came aboard. Less than two years later, he has put this farm system from dead last to the upper half in all of baseball. He got ownership to build a state of the art facility in the Dominican, giving the Pirates a top notch Latin-American base, something this organization hasn't had in 20 years.

Believe me, I have seen this plan work in Cleveland, Oakland, Tampa Bay, Detroit and many other small market towns. Very soon, you and the rest of the Pirates "lost generation" are going to see the great baseball that myself and many other posters on this site saw as young kids, teenagers and young adults.

BTW, I was wrong with Snider and Koufax.. it was Kiner, although both Snider and Koufax did have contentious negotiations during their time


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:37 am 
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The "right way".

There is no right way. There are different ways that teams take to win. One thing for sure is with Pirate ownership it will be the cheap or economical way.

Those of you who feel the Pirates are doing things the "right way" have supported them through all the wrong ways. You are going to continue to support them either way. The so called "right way" has not seen results. Just because some other teams have had their "right way" work does not assure the Pirates "right way" to work. PNC Park was the "right way" and needed to build a winner yet that did not work out unless the "right way" was to make a nice profit at the taxpayers expense and losing 9 years at the hand out venue.

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:47 am 
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If the Bay trade had not been made, we very well may be contending. We would have needed a third baseman still, but our division is week enough that we may have been in the running. But, what about next year? Bay wouldn't have signed here. Even Boston is having a tough time signing him. Long term, trading him was the right move, but to say we would not be contenders this year just doesn't ring true to me. I am a supporter of most moves NH has made, but our lineup would have been decent, and our starters would be winning a lot more of these quality starts if Bay were still in the lineup. Again, I'm not second guessing, just saying that we would be a pretty decent team if JBay were here.


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:51 am 
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Estrago, its obvious you have no clue about the game outside of Pittsburgh, which is fine if you want to base useless opinions on one teams struggles..

For what its worth, I have yet to see a team with a good farm system that produces the majority of their everyday lineup have losing seasons. I've seen the game since 1971 and have yet to find a team who consistently loses games with a top notch farm system..

As for the ballpark, anyone who said the ballpark would ensure a winner is wrong. Having said that, the ballpark and the city are essential to bringing in free agents when the time comes for this team to contend.. which will be in 2 years..


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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:06 am 
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Curve

You think that just because the GM is using the Indian plan that the Pirates will be sure fire winners. Sorry Curve, it just does not work this way. They may be using a similar plan, but it does not mean winning is a sure bet. You just ignore that simple obvious fact.

Ownership claimed they needed a new park to compete and was needed to build a winner. The main attraction for free agents is the money. Get a clue

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 Post subject: Re: Hey Ryann
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:15 am 
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estrago wrote:
Curve

You think that just because the GM is using the Indian plan that the Pirates will be sure fire winners. Sorry Curve, it just does not work this way. They may be using a similar plan, but it does not mean winning is a sure bet. You just ignore that simple obvious fact.

Ownership claimed they needed a new park to compete and was needed to build a winner. The main attraction for free agents is the money. Get a clue


BH, you are clutching and grasping at what the Pirates once were because you know very soon that you aren't going to have anything to complain about. Check that, I don't doubt you will find something to complain about when we are winning. Each time you make a post you say the same things regardless of the improvement that is happening. I wonder if you aren't paying attention, or you frankly don't care about the Pirates (but to rile up us faithful fans), or you don't have a grasp of the overall MLB picture (teams are in business to make money, otherwise they'd find a city that COULD make them money). Dude you remind me of the tape recorders of the 80's... any time you enter a discussion, you hit rewind, then play, someone responds to your post, you hit rewind, then play... and on and on... It gets so freakin old dude... OLD... sorry I had to call you out like that.


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