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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:09 am 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Sorry Ryann, I can vouch for Wilton unconditionally on this one.


Give him some time, he needs to find his Webster's to look some of them words up...

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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:21 am 
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The problem Ryann is that you would be supporting Littlefield right now if he were the GM, because he did all the things you want our current GM to do. Namely try to win now at the cost of our organization by buying or trading for washed up has-beens because we are "close."

Just the facts man, just the facts.


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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:24 am 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
The problem Ryann is that you would be supporting Littlefield right now if he were the GM, because he did all the things you want our current GM to do. Namely try to win now at the cost of our organization by buying or trading for washed up has-beens because we are "close."

Just the facts man, just the facts.

Touche! Great point, PF13.


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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:36 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
The problem Ryann is that you would be supporting Littlefield right now if he were the GM, because he did all the things you want our current GM to do. Namely try to win now at the cost of our organization by buying or trading for washed up has-beens because we are "close."

Just the facts man, just the facts.


+1


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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:54 pm 
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I can't support a gm who is amazingly cheap like littlefield was. Passing on premuim draft talent (Like the current gm did this year) and trading top players for salary related issues for nothing in return.

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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:08 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
I can't support a gm who is amazingly cheap like littlefield was. Passing on premuim draft talent (Like the current gm did this year) and trading top players for salary related issues for nothing in return.


Theres more to a draft than just the 1st round...

The Pirates didn't think there was much of a difference in talent after the 1st few picks and were saving money on the 1st round so they could sign some high ceiling high school kids getting ready to go to college...

If they were cheap, please describe why they signed Pedro Alvarez and wasted so much money bringing in fresh blood in the front office like the guy they signed from Baseball Prospectus? And why they spent tons of $$$ on last years draft? Or why they wasted building such a huge baseball academy in Latin America? Or why they gave their Latin Scout a pretty big budget to spend on talent?

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:29 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Ryann wrote:
I can't support a gm who is amazingly cheap like littlefield was. Passing on premuim draft talent (Like the current gm did this year) and trading top players for salary related issues for nothing in return.


Theres more to a draft than just the 1st round...

The Pirates didn't think there was much of a difference in talent after the 1st few picks and were saving money on the 1st round so they could sign some high ceiling high school kids getting ready to go to college...

If they were cheap, please describe why they signed Pedro Alvarez and wasted so much money bringing in fresh blood in the front office like the guy they signed from Baseball Prospectus? And why they spent tons of $$$ on last years draft? Or why they wasted building such a huge baseball academy in Latin America? Or why they gave their Latin Scout a pretty big budget to spend on talent?

They drafted Alvarez because they had to after fans were still pissed about not getting wieters. That alvarez pick had to be done because of the possible backlash. It was used to please moronic fans like you who would then kiss the feat of neil. For one obvious easy draft pick. Actually they haven't given their scout much of a budget the budget right now is like 2 million dollars (They can raise it for Sano which they said they will do)
They are cheap they "saved" their money. That is just a bullshit excuse for the team to pass on premium talent to sign people in later rounds. The first round shouldn't munipulate who you pick in later rounds do to salary concerns. You should pick the best player on the board.

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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:38 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
Ryann wrote:
I can't support a gm who is amazingly cheap like littlefield was. Passing on premuim draft talent (Like the current gm did this year) and trading top players for salary related issues for nothing in return.


Theres more to a draft than just the 1st round...

The Pirates didn't think there was much of a difference in talent after the 1st few picks and were saving money on the 1st round so they could sign some high ceiling high school kids getting ready to go to college...

If they were cheap, please describe why they signed Pedro Alvarez and wasted so much money bringing in fresh blood in the front office like the guy they signed from Baseball Prospectus? And why they spent tons of $$$ on last years draft? Or why they wasted building such a huge baseball academy in Latin America? Or why they gave their Latin Scout a pretty big budget to spend on talent?

They drafted Alvarez because they had to after fans were still pissed about not getting wieters. That alvarez pick had to be done because of the possible backlash. It was used to please moronic fans like you who would then kiss the feat of neil. For one obvious easy draft pick. Actually they haven't given their scout much of a budget the budget right now is like 2 million dollars (They can raise it for Sano which they said they will do)
They are cheap they "saved" their money. That is just a bullshit excuse for the team to pass on premium talent to sign people in later rounds. The first round shouldn't munipulate who you pick in later rounds do to salary concerns. You should pick the best player on the board.



I worship my Neal shrine everyday...I love to kiss his FEET...You have still yet explained how they spent so much more money in the later rounds of the draft last year, or built their academy or the signing of Dan Fox from Baseball Prospectus? They're so cheap why would they waste money on talented front office people when they could have kept Littlefield in charge? If he was making Nutting so much money, why ruin a good thing?

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:19 pm 
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They spent so much in later rounds? They didn't spend a ton, and they had to few a few thousand to some late round players to get some bodies in the organization. The most important thing about this years draft is they swung and missed in the most important round...ROUND 1!

A baseball academy? They had no choice BUT to build a baseball academy. The pirates were on of the last teams to build anything or even try anything in latin america so don't use that bullshit excuse. How the fuck is a baseball academy in the dominican republic going to get the Pirates wins in the next 10 years? Everyone else is down there and they were there first.

Are you a fucking clown? You are praising how high spending the Pirates are for getting a front office helper? You are a clown I rather have money on the actual team then on the front office.

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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:38 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
They spent so much in later rounds? They didn't spend a ton, and they had to few a few thousand to some late round players to get some bodies in the organization. The most important thing about this years draft is they swung and missed in the most important round...ROUND 1!

A baseball academy? They had no choice BUT to build a baseball academy. The pirates were on of the last teams to build anything or even try anything in latin america so don't use that bullshit excuse. How the fuck is a baseball academy in the dominican republic going to get the Pirates wins in the next 10 years? Everyone else is down there and they were there first.

Are you a fucking clown? You are praising how high spending the Pirates are for getting a front office helper? You are a clown I rather have money on the actual team then on the front office.


Let me work backwards on this...How are you going to find players for the actual team without front office help?

No, the Pirates could have stayed the course down there and gotten the crap pick of the Latin guys...I watched the special on the academy on FSN and figured the group of guys down there now are 6 years away from being on the Pirates...The Pirates have one real nice thing on their side with the legacy of Roberto Clemente...He's still a huge figure down there...

The Pirates were high spenders in the draft...

Quote:
The Pirates showed they are willing to be a player in the free-agent amateur draft, which is the best and fastest way to build a contender. Not only did they exceed the hallowed slotting levels that Coonelly, in his former role with Major League Baseball, had helped to establish and enforce, they blew by them in several cases.

Earlier Friday, the Pirates gave a $900,000 bonus to pitcher Quinton Miller, a 20th-round pick who had signed a letter of intent to play baseball at North Carolina. Even for a player who would have been drafted higher had he not said he was going to college, it was an astonishing figure. Players taken in the 20th round are more apt to get a four-figure bonus than one of almost seven figures.

Thursday, they gave a $1 million bonus to sixth-round choice Robbie Grossman, who was set to attend Texas. Sixth-rounders aren't slotted, but most get around $150,000.

By the end of the day, the Pirates had doled out about $9.5 million to the 32 draft choices they signed. That's more money than any team spent last year. Figures for this year are not available yet, but the Pirates should be in the upper echelon.


Quote:
Any thoughts, as absurd as they might have been, that Coonelly owed more allegiance to the slotting system he established than to the Pirates were erased. He's an executive who wants to win. He did not take this job to be thwarted by a cheapskate owner. Coonelly has been mentioned as a possible successor to Bud Selig as commissioner of MLB, and, if that's his goal, he won't get there by running a haphazard organization.


Aug. 17th, 2008 from Smizik http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08230/904968-63.stm

From Dejan on the day after Pedro originally signed his contract at midnight (8/16/08)...http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08229/904846-63.stm

Quote:
Alvarez's bonus, part of a minor league contract, far exceeded the $4 million the Pirates paid to pitcher Bryan Bullington, No. 1 overall in 2001. More striking, it was part of total spending on this 32-player draft class that approached $10 million, a figure made possible when owner Bob Nutting early last month authorized a significant increase. That total included $8,166,000 on players in the top 10 rounds and an additional $900,000 yesterday to lure the 20th-round pick, pitcher Quinton Miller.

That not only was a record for the Pirates, but it was roughly $2 million more than any major league team spent on the draft last season. The high last season was the New York Yankees' $7.6 million.


Quote:
Considering this is the same organization that a year ago selected pitcher Daniel Moskos over Matt Wieters, currently the best prospect in baseball, Pittsburgh fans have to be thrilled. The Bucs made their first significant strides toward winning in years by spending almost as much as the Red Sox on their 2008 draft class.

After ducking Wieters, a Scott Boras client, in 2007, they decided to deal with the agent in 2008, inking No. 2 overall pick Pedro Alvarez with a $6 million bonus, and while they didn't sign secound-round pick Tanner Scheppers, they spent almost $2 million on over slot deals for sixth-round pick Robbie Grossman and 20th-round pick Quinton Miller, with the latter considered an top-round talent by some.

GM Neal Huntington also did well for himself at this year's trade deadline, allowing folks in Pittsburgh to start dreaming of a day where the Pirates are more than just a depressing diversion until the Steelers begin training camp.


From Andrew Johnson...http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2008/08/17/winn ... gning-day/

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:29 pm 
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You don't want a good team. You rather have a loaded front office system :lol:

You need good players to have a good team. Taking stupid gambles on guys in the 20th round for 900g's instead of getting the best player in the first round is stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:55 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
You don't want a good team. You rather have a loaded front office system :lol:

You need good players to have a good team. Taking stupid gambles on guys in the 20th round for 900g's instead of getting the best player in the first round is stupid.


Yes, cuz only 1st Round Draft picks become MLB superstars...I'll be sure to tell that to Albert Pujols(13th round 1999 by St. Louis) and Chris Duncan (1st round 1999 pick by St Louis) when my clown ass is at the next Cards-Pirates game...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:10 pm 
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I love how Ryann feels compelled to tell us what we do and do not want.

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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:45 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Ryann wrote:
You don't want a good team. You rather have a loaded front office system :lol:

You need good players to have a good team. Taking stupid gambles on guys in the 20th round for 900g's instead of getting the best player in the first round is stupid.


Yes, cuz only 1st Round Draft picks become MLB superstars...I'll be sure to tell that to Albert Pujols(13th round 1999 by St. Louis) and Chris Duncan (1st round 1999 pick by St Louis) when my clown ass is at the next Cards-Pirates game...


Damn you used that shitty ass argument before. The odds of premium talent in round 1 compared to round 10 cannot compare...You might get lucky in later rounds, but that is not compare.
Round 1 > Round 10
Round 1 < rounds ,2-40.
Do you understand now? You can't fucking pass on the best players in the first round to save money for your cheap ass team with a shitty farm system to take a chance on late round talent. Only fucking cheapskates do that!

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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:52 am 
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Now, now. What would mommy say when she saw words like that coming from you? I'll let her know after she is done taking care of "things" here in my bedroom.


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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:58 am 
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HAHA see you know nothing about baseball. You are a mindless apoligists fool who thinks a team can compete in a perennial fashion with one of the leagues lowest payrolls. You are a moron.

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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:43 am 
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Ryann wrote:
HAHA see you know nothing about baseball. You are a mindless apoligists fool who thinks a team can compete in a perennial fashion with one of the leagues lowest payrolls. You are a moron.


Like the Florida Marlins?


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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:55 am 
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Chris Anderson wrote:
Ryann wrote:
HAHA see you know nothing about baseball. You are a mindless apoligists fool who thinks a team can compete in a perennial fashion with one of the leagues lowest payrolls. You are a moron.


Like the Florida Marlins?


The Florida Marlins spent more then the Pirates. Also if they trade people they get good players in return.
Like the Marlins would get good players in return for Jason Bay.

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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:27 am 
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Ryann wrote:
The Florida Marlins spent more then the Pirates. Also if they trade people they get good players in return.
Like the Marlins would get good players in return for Jason Bay.



Year Florida Pittsburgh
2009 36 48
2008 21 49
2007 30 38
2006 15 46
2005 36 48
2004 42 32
2003 63 62

These are the payrolls for both teams back through 2003. Figured we only talk recent history. So...every year since 2004, the Pirates have spent more, sometimes significantly so, than the Marlins. There was a decent difference, with Florida spending more, in 2004 (the year after the Marlins won the world series) and effectively a push in 2003.

Next argument?

Also, it's true that Florida 'usually' does well when trading players. You can look at the Josh Beckett trade as a good one, Hanley Rameriz is the best player at his position hand's down. But what about the Miguel Cabrera/Dontrelle Willis trade? Using your "quick to judge" eye, this trade is a complete failure for the Fish. Maybin isn't hitting 30hr's for the Marlins yet and Andrew Miller isn't an ace. My point is, you can't judge a trade of prospects for big time player in less than one season. That's not why you make that trade.

I would imagine that you were probably screaming when the Buccos traded Brian Giles for Jason Bay and Oliver Perez. What, were you even out of diapers then? Hell, are you out of diapers yet?


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 Post subject: Re: Owner watch, What is he doing ????
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:41 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Chris Anderson wrote:
Ryann wrote:
HAHA see you know nothing about baseball. You are a mindless apoligists fool who thinks a team can compete in a perennial fashion with one of the leagues lowest payrolls. You are a moron.


Like the Florida Marlins?


The Florida Marlins spent more then the Pirates. Also if they trade people they get good players in return.
Like the Marlins would get good players in return for Jason Bay.

Someone didn't do his homework. The Marlins have the lowest payroll in the league.

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