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 Post subject: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:54 pm 
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top 1st we have runners on 1st and 2nd and he refuses to bunt Moss, Moss flies out, LaRoche does his usual K, and Jones grounds out....sets the tone for the game. JR is a f**kin moron!! PLAY FUNDAMENTAL BASEBALL!!


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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:06 pm 
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DoeyDoumit wrote:
top 1st we have runners on 1st and 2nd and he refuses to bunt Moss, Moss flies out, LaRoche does his usual K, and Jones grounds out....sets the tone for the game. JR is a f**kin moron!! PLAY FUNDAMENTAL BASEBALL!!

Bunting in the first inning is NOT fundamental baseball. That's giving up at baseball. You are a f**kin moron for thinking that it is okay to bunt in the first inning with men on 1st and 2nd.

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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:08 pm 
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its people like you that could manage the pirates. Yesterday watching the braves nationals game, brian mccann the 4 hitter dropped a bunt down in the 4th inning to move runners up to 2nd and 3rd. THE 4TH HITTER. I never knew Brandon Moss hitting a whopping .263 with 2 Homeruns was too good to bunt. LOSING BASEBALL AT ITS BEST.


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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:11 pm 
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Doey - okay, so he has Moss bunt in the top of the first and it works to perfection.

Runners now at 2nd and 3rd, just one out!!

Adam Laroche K's, Jones flies out, and the Pirates score 0 runs.

How exactly does that effect the outcome??


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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:25 pm 
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DoeyDoumit wrote:
its people like you that could manage the pirates. Yesterday watching the braves nationals game, brian mccann the 4 hitter dropped a bunt down in the 4th inning to move runners up to 2nd and 3rd. THE 4TH HITTER. I never knew Brandon Moss hitting a whopping .263 with 2 Homeruns was too good to bunt. LOSING BASEBALL AT ITS BEST.

First of all, no, that happened 2 days ago, not yesterday. And second, it did the Braves no good: the Nats walked the next two batter, which would have scored a run anway even if McCann had struckout. By taking the bat out of the hands of the best hitter on the team, the Braves severely limited McCann's effectiveness and the team's ability to put the game away.

Damn near everyone on the Pirates is too good to bunt. Bunting is reserved for truly awful hitters, i.e. pitchers, and when scoring one run means more than scoring two. Giving up outs for bases is a great way to limit run scoring, especially in the 1st inning.

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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:29 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Damn near everyone on the Pirates is too good to bunt.

Today's line-up was so horrid that it looked like Ohlendorf was batting twice per inning.


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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:32 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Willton wrote:
Damn near everyone on the Pirates is too good to bunt.

Today's line-up was so horrid that it looked like Ohlendorf was batting twice per inning.

While it may have looked like that, appearances are deceiving. I've seen Jason Bay look like crap at the plate; that does not mean that he IS crap at the plate.

It's just another game.

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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:37 pm 
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Willton wrote:
It's just another game.

We need to get used to it until Sanchez and Doumit are in the line-up and hitting.

If the Pirates can put McCutchen, Sanchez, Doumit, Laroche, and Laroche on the field, then they can score a few runs. Nothing that is even league average, mind you, but a hell of a lot better than the crap that took the field today.


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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:51 pm 
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I'm as frustrated with Moss as everyone else is, but I just don't see the benefit of him squaring around when there are no outs and men on 1st and 2nd in the first inning. That's the time when you should be swinging away and trying to put up crooked numbers. The fact that no such numbers were put up does not take away from its soundness as a hitting philosophy.

Yeah, our offense is weak, but having more people bunt is just going to make it weaker.

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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:26 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Doey - okay, so he has Moss bunt in the top of the first and it works to perfection.

Runners now at 2nd and 3rd, just one out!!

Adam Laroche K's, Jones flies out, and the Pirates score 0 runs.

How exactly does that effect the outcome??


That is not true! It would have been a totally different situation on the Pitcher and hitter. I think Moss should have bunted considering quite how bad he has been this season. It's not why the Pirates lost the game though.

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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:44 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
Doey - okay, so he has Moss bunt in the top of the first and it works to perfection.

Runners now at 2nd and 3rd, just one out!!

Adam Laroche K's, Jones flies out, and the Pirates score 0 runs.

How exactly does that effect the outcome??


That is not true! It would have been a totally different situation on the Pitcher and hitter. I think Moss should have bunted considering quite how bad he has been this season. It's not why the Pirates lost the game though.

How would a "different situation" have made Laroche better and Nolasco worse? Laroche had three fugly at bats against Nolasco.

Having Moss bunt does not change that. In fact, since it was the top of the first, Nolasco goes after Laroche. So he hits a ground ball or a fly ball and the Pirates score one run? Big freaking deal. So, Nolasco goes after Laroche with one out, runners on second and third. Same result ... he fans.

Unless of course your proposal is that Nolasco folds when the pressure is on with runners on second and third and one out, first inning, 0-0 game, and Laroche rallies in such situation. Unlike the completely different scenario of runners first and second, one out, first inning, 0-0 game.


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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Laroche would have the advantage. Nolasco would have to be more careful with laroche with 2 runners in scoring position.

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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:00 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Laroche would have the advantage. Nolasco would have to be more careful with laroche with 2 runners in scoring position.

As opposed to one? He would have been "more careful" if runners were at 2nd and 3rd, as opposed to 1st and 2nd?

Well, when he faced Laroche and was "less careful" (according to you), he fanned him. If he had been "more careful," as you state, then Laroche's at bat would not have been more productive - it would have been less productive.


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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:33 am 
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The title of your post could possibly be a good name for a website.
Better get the rights to it before someone else does.

Imagine all the traffic that site would get?. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to somebody smart.


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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:56 pm 
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DoeyDoumit wrote:
top 1st we have runners on 1st and 2nd and he refuses to bunt Moss, Moss flies out, LaRoche does his usual K, and Jones grounds out....sets the tone for the game. JR is a f**kin moron!! PLAY FUNDAMENTAL BASEBALL!!


Doey -
As much as I advocate the strategic and offensive use of the bunt, I just don't see much merit at having your #3 hitter attempt to lay down a bunt in that situation. I think that would simply be putting Moss in the position to fail at that point. Best course is to have him swing away. Now . . . that doesn't mean that his early plate approach should be to swing away at anything . . . I would advocate that he should be looking for pitches to pull early in the count. Even with him swinging away, the thought in the back of his head should be to get those runners advanced.

I don't agree with those who think that Nolasco's approach to LaRoche or LaRoche's approach to Nolasco will be the same with runners on first and second and with runners on second and third. The situations don't change scouting reports or make LaRoche any better or worse or Nolasco better or worse. But . . . I believe that it changes - at least - LaRoche's approach to the at-bat and likely changes Nolasco's approach as well. With runners on second and third and one out, LaRoche's approach at the plate will be to look for a ball that he can lift. With runners on first and second and one out, that will not necessarily be his approach. There are also some arguments as to why Nolasco would take a different approach as well.

I agree with you on one point . . . given the dismal effort by the Bucco hitters lately . . . getting a run in that first inning would have been a good thing. Leaving those runners stranded in the first simply set the tone for the remainder of the game and another "here we go again." I simply don't buy the absence of psychology theory offered by some; "professional hitters" aren't machines immune to ebbs and flows of the season (at least IMO).

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:24 pm 
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DoeyDoumit wrote:
top 1st we have runners on 1st and 2nd and he refuses to bunt Moss, Moss flies out, LaRoche does his usual K, and Jones grounds out....sets the tone for the game. JR is a f**kin moron!! PLAY FUNDAMENTAL BASEBALL!!



And what is YOUR reason for being an idiot?

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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:10 pm 
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DoeyDoumit wrote:
top 1st we have runners on 1st and 2nd and he refuses to bunt Moss, Moss flies out, LaRoche does his usual K, and Jones grounds out....sets the tone for the game. JR is a f**kin moron!! PLAY FUNDAMENTAL BASEBALL!!

I'd be writing the same post if he HAD bunted Moss. The only difference between our posts is that I would have been right.

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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:17 pm 
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I was going to re-title this thread, "Why [fill in name here] is an idiot." The answer: He read this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:00 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
I just don't see much merit at having your #3 hitter attempt to lay down a bunt in that situation.



There you have it, folks! If No. 9 doesn't advocate a bunt, then you shouldn't be bunting. :D

I never thought I would see you make that statement, No. 9! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: WHY JOHN RUSSELL IS AN IDIOT
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:10 am 
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BBF wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
I just don't see much merit at having your #3 hitter attempt to lay down a bunt in that situation.



There you have it, folks! If No. 9 doesn't advocate a bunt, then you shouldn't be bunting. :D

I never thought I would see you make that statement, No. 9! ;)

When your number 3 hitter is Delwyn Young you have to lay the sacrifice. We aren't talking a Pujols player at number 3 hitter. Tonight it was Delwyn Young.

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