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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:07 am 
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Well first of all, I'm not asking him to babysit, I'm asking him to play left field. It's really none of my business what he did when he was 16, none of any of our business. Still, I have done the "reading up on him" and found very little. Where is the conclusive article to back up your claim that he was 17 and had sex with a 12 year old? He admitted to having sex with his girlfriend who was 15. But the other allegations come from an UNSIGNED LETTER!!!

Here is an excerpt from an article I found:
Quote:
It said something about how Lastings - named because he was to be "the last" of the seven Milledge children - had been leaving the campus of his small Baptist private school with younger girls. The letter said the school should look into how Lastings - 16 at the time and a popular athlete in the school - had been getting sexual favors from willing girls as young as 12 and 13. The letter was not signed.


So maybe it's true, or maybe some rival of his had it out for him. Who knows? Here is another excerpt
Quote:
The Milledges are adamant that the accusations are not true, and offer a flood of circumstantial evidence to support their case. Yesterday, Tony Milledge, his wife Linda, their son Tony Jr., Lastings and several representatives discussed the claims and the investigation with a reporter from The News.

Lastings did not have sexual conduct with girls as young as 12 and 13, they say. He did go through a juvenile program, they admit, but voluntarily and only because he could have been prosecuted for the sexual contact he admitted having with his girlfriend. The one agency that could say for sure what the investigation uncovered is the state's attorney's office, which declined to comment because of Florida's laws protecting juveniles.

But if Lastings had really been with 12-year-old girls, his family asked, wouldn't he have gone to jail? Wouldn't he at least have been arrested and charged? Would the school really have kept him there during the months he was under investigation, only to expel him two days after Northside's baseball team lost in the state championship? Would the school have said publicly that he was welcome to return for his senior season?

"And let me tell you something," his father says, pointing next to the badge on his thick chest. "If Lastings had done something like that, he would have had to deal with me."


So, post your article now. The one with proof that he did indeed have sex with kids. I'm waiting.

Read the rest of this article
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/spo ... gs_mi.html


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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:22 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Animal wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Animal I quote your exact words
"Morten for Mclouth was a steal"
That is simply not true. I pointed that out to you, and you went to childish name calling and lies.

Look you lost credibility when you pouted and shouted about the Pirates getting Milledge (Who you thought was Dukes :lol: ).



First off, I do believe it was a steal, and so do many others.

Second, no childish name calling here. No lies.

Third, I did err when I mixed up some of Dukes bad deeds with Milledge's. Hard to keep track of which turd is which. This will turn out to be horrible for the Bucs. Milledge will continue to be a bad teammate, thug, criminal, and more. Just you wait and see.

So please, just try to grow up and discuss the Pirates. And please, try to make your posts more understandable. You have been doing a better job of that lately.


It was a steal considering the other pieces of the trade. But you claimed that if it was only morten it would be a steal and that is an idiotic statement.

You have lied, and used childish name calling towards me.
Milledge has a ton of potential. You will see I think someday he will be a very good major league player. It seems bad situations find Milledge, not Milledge finds bad situations.


Okay, here is my opinion. Feel free to have a different opinion if you like. McLouth was expendable. He is is nothing more than an above average OF. McCutchen has replaced him and has a chance to be something really special, a perennial all star. Motron also has some great tools. He could be a great pitcher for a really long time. FOr those reasons, I believe that even if the trade had been one on one it would have been a steal for the Bucs.

Yes, Milledge has a ton of POTENTIAL. Based on experience, I don't think that potential will ever help a team win. Team chemistry is important. Milledge is a guy hated by his teammates. He is a "me guy". He is the kind of guy who sulks if the team wins and he goes 0-fer, but would be happy if he had four hits and teh team lost. Guys like this never turn it around. Just give me some examples of players like this who have helped teams win.

Finally, I hate people like Milledge. Plain simple hate. I don't want them on my team, and I don't want to cheer for them. It's as simple as that.

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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:28 am 
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JimY wrote:
Uh, just interjecting my opinion here, that neither of you has much credibility. You are both horribly immature, and come off quite mindless. I haven't always thought this about Animal, but the way you are acting about the Millage trade is....well....weird. Did Lastings kill your dog or something? You keep guaranteeing that he will be a cancer.... How well do you know him, or the inner workings of the Nats or Mets locker rooms? He came out with a rap CD, and had sex when he was a teenager, big whoop. He high fived some fans after a home run. If Nyjer high fived some fans after a homer everyone would have said how "neat and fun" his relationship with the fans is. When you admit that you were confusing Dukes rap sheet with his you should have said "I was wrong about the guy" but instead you keep on this weird crusade against a 24 year old kid. It's just WEIRD!!!



Feel free to feel whatever way you want. I hate Milledge. I hate the thought of him being any part of my team. He is a criminal, a thug, horrible teammate, horrible person. I have dealt with people like this for much of my life. Rarely do they ever amount to anything. Players like Milledge rarely contribute to any winning. Can you cite me some examples were players like this helped a team win?

He is a low life. I don't care how old he was...sex with a 12 year old? The inappropriate stuff he rapped about? Low life. Will never change. Trust me.

I am sorry but people like this bring out the worst in me. It is something I am very passionate about. I have seen kids like this get chances over and over and over, but never make the best of it.

I don't believe trading a popular and great guy like Nyjer for a player like this is worth the remote possibility that it might work out.

Can you understand that?

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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:36 am 
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JimY wrote:
Well first of all, I'm not asking him to babysit, I'm asking him to play left field. It's really none of my business what he did when he was 16, none of any of our business. Still, I have done the "reading up on him" and found very little. Where is the conclusive article to back up your claim that he was 17 and had sex with a 12 year old? He admitted to having sex with his girlfriend who was 15. But the other allegations come from an UNSIGNED LETTER!!!

Here is an excerpt from an article I found:
Quote:
It said something about how Lastings - named because he was to be "the last" of the seven Milledge children - had been leaving the campus of his small Baptist private school with younger girls. The letter said the school should look into how Lastings - 16 at the time and a popular athlete in the school - had been getting sexual favors from willing girls as young as 12 and 13. The letter was not signed.


So maybe it's true, or maybe some rival of his had it out for him. Who knows? Here is another excerpt
Quote:
The Milledges are adamant that the accusations are not true, and offer a flood of circumstantial evidence to support their case. Yesterday, Tony Milledge, his wife Linda, their son Tony Jr., Lastings and several representatives discussed the claims and the investigation with a reporter from The News.

Lastings did not have sexual conduct with girls as young as 12 and 13, they say. He did go through a juvenile program, they admit, but voluntarily and only because he could have been prosecuted for the sexual contact he admitted having with his girlfriend. The one agency that could say for sure what the investigation uncovered is the state's attorney's office, which declined to comment because of Florida's laws protecting juveniles.

But if Lastings had really been with 12-year-old girls, his family asked, wouldn't he have gone to jail? Wouldn't he at least have been arrested and charged? Would the school really have kept him there during the months he was under investigation, only to expel him two days after Northside's baseball team lost in the state championship? Would the school have said publicly that he was welcome to return for his senior season?

"And let me tell you something," his father says, pointing next to the badge on his thick chest. "If Lastings had done something like that, he would have had to deal with me."


So, post your article now. The one with proof that he did indeed have sex with kids. I'm waiting.

Read the rest of this article
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/spo ... gs_mi.html



They took the easy way out instead of fighting it. No criminal charges were filed. His dad was a cop. WHy do you think all that happened. Don't you think his Dad would have fought it, if it were not truc? Don't you think his dad would have wanted to clear his name if it were not true.

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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:42 am 
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Quote:
Can you cite me some examples were players like this helped a team win?


Players like WHAT??? I honestly don't even know what you're talking about.... What do you mean "players like this" WTF did the guy do??? He was on a rap album and gave a few high fives....WHAT ELSE DID HE DO!?!?!?!?!? You're grouping him in with Dukes, and Bradley, for no apparent reason. You don't know him personally. Despite the fact that you've known "people like him", you still don't know him. What is a "person like him" and how do you know that he is one of those "people like him"..... You'd likely be perfectly fine with this trade if someone you know heard a rumor that there was a rumor that when Nijer was 15 he poisoned a kitten.
This is just WEIRD!


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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:46 am 
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JimY wrote:
Quote:
Can you cite me some examples were players like this helped a team win?


Players like WHAT??? I honestly don't even know what you're talking about.... What do you mean "players like this" WTF did the guy do??? He was on a rap album and gave a few high fives....WHAT ELSE DID HE DO!?!?!?!?!? You're grouping him in with Dukes, and Bradley, for no apparent reason. You don't know him personally. Despite the fact that you've known "people like him", you still don't know him. What is a "person like him" and how do you know that he is one of those "people like him"..... You'd likely be perfectly fine with this trade if someone you know heard a rumor that there was a rumor that when Nijer was 15 he poisoned a kitten.
This is just WEIRD!


There are tons of examples out there showing what kind of person he is. If you choose to ignore it, it does not mean it doesn't exist. As I said, you have a right to your opinion. Think of him what you want. Based on my experience, and what I have read, I choose to not want him on my team. It's as simple as that. I would bet my life's savings the guy never amounts to anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:49 am 
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Quote:
They took the easy way out instead of fighting it. No criminal charges were filed. His dad was a cop. WHy do you think all that happened. Don't you think his Dad would have fought it, if it were not truc? Don't you think his dad would have wanted to clear his name if it were not true.



Fought WHAT? There were no criminal charges to fight. You just said it right there in the second sentence. What should he have fought? How could he have "cleared his name"? It was an unsigned letter, that was never substantiated. How can you clear your name of that other than just denying it. What else could they have done?
And why is it that your argument here is basically here that "cops are bad". Cops risk their lives every day, so that you can use the fact that they are cops as proof that their kids are pedophiles.


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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:50 am 
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Quote:
There are tons of examples out there showing what kind of person he is.


List them.


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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:14 pm 
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JimY wrote:
Quote:
They took the easy way out instead of fighting it. No criminal charges were filed. His dad was a cop. WHy do you think all that happened. Don't you think his Dad would have fought it, if it were not truc? Don't you think his dad would have wanted to clear his name if it were not true.



Fought WHAT? There were no criminal charges to fight. You just said it right there in the second sentence. What should he have fought? How could he have "cleared his name"? It was an unsigned letter, that was never substantiated. How can you clear your name of that other than just denying it. What else could they have done?
And why is it that your argument here is basically here that "cops are bad". Cops risk their lives every day, so that you can use the fact that they are cops as proof that their kids are pedophiles.


You misunderstood what I said. Trust me, I have the utmost respect for cops. The point was that he was expelled for something that is father, the cop, claimed he never did. It tarnished his name. It tarnished his reputation. Do not believe for one minute that if this were not true, his father would not have filed lawsuits to clear his name and reputation. What I BELIEVE, and this is only my opinion, that in addition to those allegations, many more would have come out.

Not sure how old you are or if you have children, but let me ask you this...if your kid were expelled from school for something that he or she did not do, would you not do everything in your power to fight it? I know I would, especially if my kid was looking at millions of dollares in the future.

The original point I was making about his dad being a cop, is that cops know about evidence. Cops know about the law. Cops know about rights. No doubt in my mind that if these allegations were not true, then his Dad would have fought till his death for his son. I know I would.

And finally, there are tons of articles out there of Milledge's problems with teammates, management, establishment, and so on. Where there is smoke, there si fire. I don not need to have any first hand evidence to establish my opinions.

I have never had any kind of problem with you JimY, so let's just agree to disagree. It should not take too long for Pirate fans and members of the organization to come to the same conclusion they did in NY and Washington.

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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:41 pm 
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Quote:
Not sure how old you are or if you have children, but let me ask you this...if your kid were expelled from school for something that he or she did not do, would you not do everything in your power to fight it? I know I would, especially if my kid was looking at millions of dollares in the future.


But he was suspended for having sex with his 15 year old gf which he admitted to. That is what you're missing here.

Quote:
Do not believe for one minute that if this were not true, his father would not have filed lawsuits to clear his name and reputation.


File lawsuits against the author of the UNSIGNED LETTER?

And I am not willing to let it go and agree to disagree while people are dragging the kids name through the dirt. He obviously has made some mistakes, but who doesn't? I think we should give the guy a break, and if he comes here and acts the fool, THEN decide we don't like him too much. But give him a chance before you label him a "thug". If the masses keep hearing that he is a thug and clubhouse cancer, then he won't be accepted here and won't find success. He MAY deserve his reputation but he MAY not. He MAY have even been a bad teammate in the past, but learned from his experience from when he was 21-22. Who knows.

I think part of the reason I am defending him so much is my own judgement of Aramis Ramierez. I hated that kid. He seemed lazy, and I percieved an attitude problem. I was so happy when we traded him......whoops.


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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:49 pm 
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JimY wrote:
Quote:
Not sure how old you are or if you have children, but let me ask you this...if your kid were expelled from school for something that he or she did not do, would you not do everything in your power to fight it? I know I would, especially if my kid was looking at millions of dollares in the future.


But he was suspended for having sex with his 15 year old gf which he admitted to. That is what you're missing here.

Quote:
Do not believe for one minute that if this were not true, his father would not have filed lawsuits to clear his name and reputation.


File lawsuits against the author of the UNSIGNED LETTER?

And I am not willing to let it go and agree to disagree while people are dragging the kids name through the dirt. He obviously has made some mistakes, but who doesn't? I think we should give the guy a break, and if he comes here and acts the fool, THEN decide we don't like him too much. But give him a chance before you label him a "thug". If the masses keep hearing that he is a thug and clubhouse cancer, then he won't be accepted here and won't find success. He MAY deserve his reputation but he MAY not. He MAY have even been a bad teammate in the past, but learned from his experience from when he was 21-22. Who knows.

I think part of the reason I am defending him so much is my own judgement of Aramis Ramierez. I hated that kid. He seemed lazy, and I percieved an attitude problem. I was so happy when we traded him......whoops.


No, lawsuit against the SCHOOL who EXPELLED him for the "unsolicited letter". The school who expelled him for "absolutely no wrong-doing". If a school did this to your kids, and he did absolutely nothing wrong, you would not fight it?? I know I would. Schools do not expell someone, opening then up to laswuits and more, without any evidence. And his Dad being a cop should have a leg up on the average person.

And while you may have judged ARam as lazy or whatever, he never had problems with teammates, the law, or anyone else, as Milledge has. Give him all the chances you want. That is your right. For me, the evidence has been presented. THe guy is a cancer, bum, thug, whatever. Prove to me you have changed and I will then accept it.

You can give a guy the "benefit of the doubt" if he has had some bad luck, tried to correct problems, etc...but here the evidence is just the opposite. Expect the worst. Hope for better.

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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:05 pm 
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Again, it's documented in EVERY article that I've read, that the suspension was for the admitted to sex with 15 year old girlfriend. Not the stuff in the letter. Your welcome to present evidence to the contrary.


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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:06 pm 
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As I am following this discussion a couple of thoughts come to mind.

1. Was he suspended or expelled? I am hearing both. As a teacher, I can tell you that there is a big difference in the two.

2. His school was a private school. Not knowing the law in Florida it can be hard to comment on the situation. Private schools often have greater leeway in dealing with students. Knowing Florida, nothing would surprise me about the law and how it can be interpreted.

3. This is the first time that I have ever heard of a school dealing with a sexual offense, if there even was one. If there are no criminal charges, where does the school enter into the picture. Only way it could would be if the offense took place on the campus.

4. An anonymous letter is no basis for anything at any time. Period.

5. Show me anyone who did not make mistakes at age 16 and I will show you Jesus Christ himself.

6. The one statement that I have read that has swayed my opinion most was the one in which his father stated that if some of these allegations were founded that he would be dealing with me (the father). To me, that says a lot.

I think we should at least give the young man a chance to prove himself as a player and a person.


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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:29 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
As I am following this discussion a couple of thoughts come to mind.

1. Was he suspended or expelled? I am hearing both. As a teacher, I can tell you that there is a big difference in the two.

2. His school was a private school. Not knowing the law in Florida it can be hard to comment on the situation. Private schools often have greater leeway in dealing with students. Knowing Florida, nothing would surprise me about the law and how it can be interpreted.

3. This is the first time that I have ever heard of a school dealing with a sexual offense, if there even was one. If there are no criminal charges, where does the school enter into the picture. Only way it could would be if the offense took place on the campus.

4. An anonymous letter is no basis for anything at any time. Period.

5. Show me anyone who did not make mistakes at age 16 and I will show you Jesus Christ himself.

6. The one statement that I have read that has swayed my opinion most was the one in which his father stated that if some of these allegations were founded that he would be dealing with me (the father). To me, that says a lot.

I think we should at least give the young man a chance to prove himself as a player and a person.


Good Points AZ...a few more points and this is my last post on the topic. There were many allegations. Some of it was said to be sex with a 12 year old when he was 16. In PA at least, that is statutory rape. There were many other misconducts.

Here is a very good article:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/le ... 52002.html

I have never seen any kind of statement from the school, just Milledge's dad's take on it...so we don't know EXACTLY what the accusations were or the reason for his expulsion. But as I said, if this were true, and that there was not a reason for the expulsion, I can guarantee you that his Dad would have fought it. Guarantee it.

Here is another article that talks about some other problems besides the sexual misconduct.
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/spo ... gs_mi.html

It says Milledge attended some type of probationary program. In PA, these type of programs are completed to keep someone's record clean. Complete it and and there is no admission of guilt. Any criminal charges can be expunged. They say he completed the progarm because he COULD BE prosecuted for what he DID do....which they claim is having sex with his girlfriend. Well, in most states, ex between two minors is no crime. Unless one of them is UNDER the age of CONSENT, which in many cases is 12, 13, or 14. Funny that his Dad would have thim complete this program if he did nothing wrong. Especially since he is a cop. In Pennsylvania, it is only a crime if there is more than 48 months difference in age between the two.

Regarding your number 3, I am assuming he violated "school rules". I know we have a pretty exclusive private school near me that can expell kids for things regardless of whether they are against the law or not. Most times, if they ARE illegal, they let the student go in exchange for no kind of litigation from the student, and them not contacting the police.

You are right about the anonymous letter. But who knows what the anonymous letter led to, and what kind fo evidence it overturned.

I will be the first to tell you that I have made tons of mistakes as a kid, but I learned from them, and turned out to have a pretty productive life. Milledge seems to keep making the same mistakes over and over.

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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:46 pm 
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This thread is going to be locked at this rate ... Milledge had sex with a very young girl* when he was in high school. Fortunately for him, he was 17 at the time. If he was 18, he would have been arrested and prosecuted - he was not, so he wasn't. That is all we know about the situation.

With respect to his behavior as a professional baseball player, he was late twice, and failed to hustle on two occasions. He was called out by the Mets for those mistakes. I have not heard about further transgressions the past 12 months.

Perhaps he has matured. He is still a young player. He has not exhibited problem behavior with the Pirates organization. He deserves a chance with the Pirates. If he demonstrates continuing problems, then it is time to criticize him and hold him accountable.

Since that has not yet occurred, it is not that time. And while I understand your line of thinking (a leopard does not change his spots), that approach is just not going to work here.

*EDIT: 15 years old, per the newspaper report, and Milledge's girlfriend.


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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Milledge is a future key component to the Pirates success. He is going to be a great player and animal will be saying 5 years from now. "I knew getting Milledge was a great deal!" :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:22 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Milledge is a future key component to the Pirates success. He is going to be a great player and animal will be saying 5 years from now. "I knew getting Milledge was a great deal!" :roll:



If it happens, I will happily admit I am wrong...but in 5 years Milledge will be nowhere to be found, except maybe in jail.

And that is my last comment on the subject!

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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:50 pm 
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Quote:
If it happens, I will happily admit I am wrong...but in 5 years Milledge will be nowhere to be found, except maybe in jail.


And if he is, all we lost is a 29 year old rookie left fielder who has no power and a lefty specialist.

I am also done with the subject. I have nothing against any of you personally, I just don't want to see a guy get a bum rap. He may deserve it, he may not, but lets decide that when he gets here.


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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:32 pm 
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Milledge doesn't deserve all this criticism. He has done nothing severe and nothing with the Pirates. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Morton on the trading block !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:44 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Milledge doesn't deserve all this criticism. He has done nothing severe and nothing with the Pirates. :roll:



Maybe your definition of severe is obviously quite different than mine. To me, statutory rape is severe. Sorry to break it to you.

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