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 Post subject: How will you define the 2009 season.....
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:14 am 
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Even with all the trades if the Pirates manage to stay with in 5 or 6 games of contention through the end of the season, how will you define this season?

A: The Pirates are a young, improved team over last year that will continue to get better.
B: The NL, especially the Central, is worse this year and the Pirates have made no improvment at the ML level.
C: This is 1997 all over again, a fluke.
D: Some combination of A and B.

I am just curious to get your thoughts.


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 Post subject: Re: How will you define the 2009 season.....
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:33 am 
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rellimie wrote:
Even with all the trades if the Pirates manage to stay with in 5 or 6 games of contention through the end of the season, how will you define this season?

A: The Pirates are a young, improved team over last year that will continue to get better.
B: The NL, especially the Central, is worse this year and the Pirates have made no improvment at the ML level.
C: This is 1997 all over again, a fluke.
D: Some combination of A and B.

I am just curious to get your thoughts.


Well i will go with D, but i think i should explain. A is exact, but i don't think that i want to say all that is in B, i will say out of B i think the NL central is weak and that is why we are only 6 games out, but i do think we have made improvments at the major league level.


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 Post subject: Re: How will you define the 2009 season.....
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:34 am 
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I'll choose A with no questions. This is the most positive season for the entire Pirate organization we've had in years from top to bottom.

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 Post subject: Re: How will you define the 2009 season.....
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:14 am 
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Well said Bassoonman.

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 Post subject: Re: How will you define the 2009 season.....
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:46 pm 
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At this point, it has definitely been the most "different" season we have seen in some time. The record is a little bit better than I anticipated, I did expect any of the three guys traded thus far to be traded. I'm more interested in seeing who is also dealt at the deadline to see if Ad. LaRoche goes like expected ...


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 Post subject: Re: How will you define the 2009 season.....
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:04 pm 
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I'm going to say B.

We've improved pitching, but gave up all of the offense and power they had a year ago at this time.

With a couple of exceptions, we are a team of unproven prospects, without much stability or continuity, or without much veteran leadership. And what veteran leadership that is there is liable to be gone within the next month or so.

I am not optimistic.


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 Post subject: Re: How will you define the 2009 season.....
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:11 pm 
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I don't know how anyone can pick B given that the team has done so much better outside the division and so poorly within.


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 Post subject: Re: How will you define the 2009 season.....
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:06 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
Even with all the trades if the Pirates manage to stay with in 5 or 6 games of contention through the end of the season, how will you define this season?

A: The Pirates are a young, improved team over last year that will continue to get better.
B: The NL, especially the Central, is worse this year and the Pirates have made no improvment at the ML level.
C: This is 1997 all over again, a fluke.
D: Some combination of A and B.

I am just curious to get your thoughts.

I would define it somewhere near the raising of Lazarus from the dead on the miracle scale.

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 Post subject: Re: How will you define the 2009 season.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:32 am 
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This season is quite different than 1997, but it is also far from over. I fear that the offense is going to struggle the rest of the season and the very good starting pitching is going to be wasted. Too bad, really.

As for 1997, that season featured one or two young position players (Guillen and Womack) who had very limited projected long-term offense, along with a number of vets and re-treads (Young, Al Martin, Dale Sveum, Joe Randa). None of those position players were potential high OPS guys who could produce above-average run production for years to come.

Currently, the Pirates have two young position players (Andy Laroche and McCutchen) better than anybody on the 1997 team. Further, they have some young players on the horizon (Alvarez, Tabata) who also project much better than anybody the Pirates had in AA or AAA in 1997.

As for pitching - the Pirates really have a glut of starting pitching right now. Morton, Maholm, Ohlendorf and Duke are all quite good and very young. Vasquez is what he is - a number 5 starter who generally throws strikes. They also have three legitimate starting candidates (Lincoln, McCutchen and Gorzellany) in AAA. Those guys beat the hell out of the young starters the Pirates had in 1997 (Chris Peters, e.g.).

Also, they have a legitimate "long reliever" (the least desireable postion in the pen, but one that is quite important, IMO) in Karstens. I have liked how Karstens has come out of the pen and thrown quality strikes. I believe that the Pirates were correct in concluding that Karstens is a good pitcher twice around the line-up, and maybe as much as 5 innings, but not more than that.

Finally, the Pirates have stocked a lot of power arms in the bullpen. Chavez, Meeks, Hanrahan, Hansen, Bautista (in AAA) to go along with Capps. If Veal can find the strike zone, the Pirates are going to have more power arms than at any time I can remember.

So, no, nothing like 1997. The answer, as I see it, is that the Pirates are a good young team (average age 27 for position players, and 26 for pitchers) which will get better. Why? Their starters are ages 25, 26, 26, 27 and 27. Their top relievers (aside from Grabow) are ages 25, 25, 25, 26 and 27. They have a lot of very good years left and will improve on their performances thus far. When the top starters in AAA join the rotation, the team will have a ton of quality power arms, up and down the roster.


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 Post subject: Re: How will you define the 2009 season.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:41 am 
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That was a great conclusion on this topic Bucfan. I think that said it all!


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 Post subject: Re: How will you define the 2009 season.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Thank you for all that replied (I especially liked BucFan's). I really enjoy getting peoples thoughts on the Bucs.


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