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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:52 am 
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I think people will be very happy with Hanrahan. Dude is filthy.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:57 am 
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omgardd wrote:
Milledge is 23 years old and in the not too distant past, was considered one of the best prospects in the game, all he needs is to mature a little bit, and I think playing with Cutch is gonna do him some good.

All he needs to do is change his attitude, outlook, and behavior. In other words, do something that almost nobody can ever do.

Lastings Milledge has behavior issues that are not going to change. He is who he is. And who he is, has not been good over the past several years. Inappropriate behavior with young - YOUNG - girls; jogging to first on ground balls; walking in to pick up a single into center field.

Will he look at this trade as a new opportunity, and hustle? Make the most of his talent? Work hard? Maybe. But do not be surprised if he fails to change at all and continues with the same behavior that he has exhibited his entire life, up to this point.

And I feel compelled to say that my personal experience may be affecting my view. I have been around very, very talented players who hustled, worked hard and were always supporting of teammates. I have also been around even more talented players who whined about their play time, cared more about their individual stats than the interests of the team, and really did not care about their teammates.

Playing with the first group was a pleasure and those guys made the entire team better. The latter group made playing a game seem like punishment.

These guys live together for 6 months. A player who has a really bad attitude can infect a team, and cause more damage than can be appreciated until the player is finally gone.

I hope to God that Milledge is not one of those players who pollutes the clubhouse, particularly of a team that may not have much veteran leadership in a few weeks. I pray that I am totally wrong about him. I really, seriously do.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:04 am 
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Willton wrote:
That's not fair to Hanrahan. Capps would have a 7 ERA too if he had the worst defense in the league behind him. Hanrahan was an excellent buy low candidate; his ERA will drop like a stone when he gets to Pittsburgh.

Fair enough. You make good points on a regular basis, so I place reliance on what you are saying. I am basing my observation on seeing Hanrahan fall behind way too frequently, or go 0-2 on hitters, and then just pipe a fastball.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:18 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Fair enough. You make good points on a regular basis, so I place reliance on what you are saying. I am basing my observation on seeing Hanrahan fall behind way too frequently, or go 0-2 on hitters, and then just pipe a fastball.


And that has been his problem. I don't think he knows how to pitch. He'll certainly learn under fire.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:20 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Quote:
Inappropriate behavior with young - YOUNG - girls;

You mean when he was a teenager himself? Look it up. He was 17 or 18 at the time.


Quote:
jogging to first on ground balls; walking in to pick up a single into center field.

Prove it. Provide examples.

Quote:
Will he look at this trade as a new opportunity, and hustle? Make the most of his talent? Work hard? Maybe. But do not be surprised if he fails to change at all and continues with the same behavior that he has exhibited his entire life, up to this point.


What bad behavior? The "bad behavior" that is so far been proven to be baseless and unfounded? I feel his incident with slapping the fans hands after hitting that HR in 2006 was unfairly criticized, I'd take that enthusiasm any day. So he made a rap video with some dude and used the words "bitch" "ho" and "nigga" So? Find me a rapper who doesn't. I'd go as far to say that I don't enjoy rap music that doesn't include those words in it.

I'm still waiting for his supposed arrest record and the records that show him father 4 kids with 4 different women out of wedlock.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:37 am 
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omgardd wrote:
Quote:
jogging to first on ground balls; walking in to pick up a single into center field.

Prove it. Provide examples.

Over in the Washington camp, Lastings Milledge seems to have a case of selective memory. “If I had to do it all over again, I’d do it the same way that I did it,’’ Milledge said about how he wouldn’t change anything about his stay in New York. “I have no regrets for the way I played the game or anything.’’

Huh?

Milledge had all sorts of problems with the Mets in 2006. Not hustling, showing up late, high-fiving the fans after hitting a homer.


http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2008/02/22/m ... mory-lane/

This guy is just unreal. He just reeks of a character who doesn’t fully appreciate his job nor understand all the work that goes into being good, if not great at what you do. Now I’m not saying I’m the most punctual being in the world, but I know if I were playing baseball for a living I’d be at the ballpark in plenty of time to properly prepare for a game. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for Mr. Milledge. Why was he benched on Thursday night? He was late to the game. Manny Acta wasn’t having any of that nonsense, saying it’s one of his rules that cannot be broken. But of course being late for a game is nothing new for Milledge.

If you remember back in ‘06, Willie Randolph got in Milledge’s ear about his lack of hustle on the bases. Milledge responded to the lesson by showing up to the park late the next day. What a guy. And my favorite was a personal experience a few years ago — I went out to the park for a Dodgers/Mets game to get some pre-game interviews. Luckily I had the pleasure of speaking with Carlos Beltran and David Wright. After those two dudes, I was really eager to speak with the new young phenom on the club. I had trouble locating him in the clubhouse, then I checked the field. He was nowhere to be found. Who was this masked man, you ask? None other than Lastings Milledge, who decided to turn down my interview request because he was already late for warmups. Dude was on the late bus to the game and showed up in the clubhouse at least an hour after me, and I wasn’t even playing. He was in jeans while everyone else on the team was already in uniform.


http://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/la ... edge-watch

PHILADELPHIA -- When the Mets invited Lastings Milledge to join the Major League team three weeks ago, they told the outfielder it would be an opportunity, one that would allow the top prospect to showcase his talents at the highest level.
It turns out, Milledge's time in the Major Leagues has also become quite the learning experience.

The 21-year-old's education continued Thursday as Milledge was taken aside by Mets coaches and veterans after reporting late for a game against the Phillies at Citizens Bank Park. Milledge missed a bus from the team's hotel and arrived at 11:55 a.m. ET, 70 minutes before the scheduled first pitch.

The incident followed a lapse in Wednesday's game, when Milledge was addressed in the dugout by manager Willie Randolph following a perceived lack of hustle. Milledge did not score from first base on a two-out, pinch-hit double by Julio Franco in the seventh inning, and Randolph said he believed Milledge had not run hard on contact.


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... ed=rss_nym


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:41 am 
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Bucfan wrote:

The 21-year-old's


Enough said.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:48 am 
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Cocky and prone to concentration lapses last season, Ramirez this year has shown an improved attitude.

Just a little excerpt from a 2001 article about a then 22 year old Aramis Ramirez.

How were you when you were 21 Bucfan? Me? I was only concerned with getting drunk, high and laid. Sometimes when I was hungover, I skipped class. I can't imagine how I'd be if I was a young hot shot baseball player making at least 6 figures at 21 years of age. I'd probably be Daryl Strawberry.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:54 am 
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omgardd wrote:
Bucfan wrote:

The 21-year-old's


Enough said.

Like I said, I hope that he appreciates how blessed he is to play a game for a living, and works hard to develop his talent. I will be thrilled if I am 100% wrong in worrying that his attitude is not going to improve when he joins a young Pirates team.

And make no mistake - I understand why the Pirates make this deal, and why they obtained another talented guy like Tabata when he had questions raised about his attitude. Buy low, sell high, particularly for a franchise like the Pirates.

So, I am not going overboard with respect to my concerns. I am just a realist. Guys who have a negative or selfish attitude can suck the life out of a team.

But there is no reason to put this label on Milledge yet. He has done nothing with the Pirates to merit classification as a selfish or negative player. I hope we can say the same thing three years from now.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:59 am 
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omgardd wrote:
How were you when you were 21 Bucfan? Me? I was only concerned with getting drunk, high and laid. Sometimes when I was hungover, I skipped class. I can't imagine how I'd be if I was a young hot shot baseball player making at least 6 figures at 21 years of age. I'd probably be Daryl Strawberry.

I was not getting drunk, high, or ignoring responsibilities when I got a job. Milledge is working in his profession. Screwing around in school happens; it is not a job or a career.

It is not accurate to focus on his age. You need to look at the fact that he is currently working full-time in his chosen field. If an employee gets drunk, misses works, etc., then he is fired. End of story.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:31 am 
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Well i think i have something to add to this conversation because i am currently 21 years old. I don't drink, i don't get high, but i have screwed up many times already in my life. I was a very highly regarded high school player in my area and i had a huuuuuuuuuge head. I got told i was the best so i acted like i was the best, i looked down on everyone and everything. I got accepted to go play college baseball at both Texas and Arizona State, i was also scouted at some baseball camps by some major league teams. The Royals went as far as to send Ken Harvey to come spend a day with me and get a feel for the person i was besides the player i was. Let's just say i wish i could go back and do that over again, i made an ass of myself.
I got arrested in February 2006(4 months before i graduated) because i was riding with 2 friends and they decided to rob the school for football equipment. I never left the car, but i got charged with the same counts that they did because i didn't stop them. After Arizona State got word of this they withdrew the scholarship i had agreed to in 2005, and to say the least Texas didn't want me anymore. I never played another game because of that.
I understand i was nowhere near the calibar of prospect that players like Milledge and Dukes were, but why do they get away with stuff like they do?
Now back to my point of all this. I had these big head issues when i was 16,17, and 18, by the time i reached 19 i had realized i screwed up and i wish i could change it all. I can guarentee at the age i am at now of 21 if i was in Triple-A/majors i would tread lightly and change my attitude. I am sick of players like Milledge, 21 isn't an excuse for stupidity. I don't like him now and i don't think i ever will. He needs to grow up fast or i hope he never makes it.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:45 am 
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I can't understand these decisions....probably 'cause I'm not a baseball genius or a businessman.....but I think that Morgan was a great gift for Pirates....and we let him go.... :(


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:55 am 
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The Italian bucco wrote:
I can't understand these decisions....probably 'cause I'm not a baseball genius or a businessman.....but I think that Morgan was a great gift for Pirates....and we let him go.... :(


I think it was the fact that he was going to already be 29 July 2nd. We traded him when we could get top dollar for him. It is a youth movement thing i think.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:06 am 
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Yes but in this season with MnM the team had, in my opinion, more self confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:25 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
...So, I am not going overboard with respect to my concerns. I am just a realist. Guys who have a negative or selfish attitude can suck the life out of a team.

But there is no reason to put this label on Milledge yet. He has done nothing with the Pirates to merit classification as a selfish or negative player. I hope we can say the same thing three years from now.


Good jumping off point for the Rocco DeMaro interview with NH post game. Driving homed from a really nice game, I had to turn up the radio a bit when I heard NH respond to Rocco.

What got my attention was the amount of personality research that the NH FO did on Milledge to determine that many of his issues are a combination of the "privileged - talented one" meeting "lack of, wrong kind of, discipline" and can be considered a classic case of "rushed to the majors".

What really got my attention was when NH said the early efforts of Stark and the developmental staff will be to figure out what type of personality and learner he is. Visual, kinesthetic, imitative, and a number of other pyschological terms I'm not familiar with.

It shows me they are building a lot more than a "how to bunt properly" academy.

NH also said that there is no need to rush him to Pittsburgh, that the days of rushing a kid like him are over. His play and attitude development will determine his fate as a MLB player.

As to Wilton's point about Hanrahan's ERA dropping, NH pointed out a few metrics that he said show Hanrahan could/should be a BIT better, but that he definitely has some issues this year that Kerrigan will need to work at, but hat his upside is too high to pass on.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:39 am 
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What minor league level is Milledge going to be sent to when he first gets here, and is he healed up from his thumb injury yet?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:51 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
Now back to my point of all this. I had these big head issues when i was 16,17, and 18, by the time i reached 19 i had realized i screwed up and i wish i could change it all. I can guarentee at the age i am at now of 21 if i was in Triple-A/majors i would tread lightly and change my attitude. I am sick of players like Milledge, 21 isn't an excuse for stupidity. I don't like him now and i don't think i ever will. He needs to grow up fast or i hope he never makes it.


Sad about your story and I'm glad it was't worse. I'm not for this trade largely because of LM has lacked maturity at every stop according to his own team mates. I hope that LM grows up and realizes his talent. This is probably his last stop as a player with highly regarded upside and not a 'bust'. That might help encourage him to change but my feeling is that it won't. I do hope he changes however because I'm a fan of the Pirates and realize he has upside.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:00 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
What minor league level is Milledge going to be sent to when he first gets here, and is he healed up from his thumb injury yet?


From the Post Gazette:
Milledge has spent the past six weeks rehabilitating a broken ring finger on his right hand, injured while trying to bunt in a May 11 game for Syracuse. The Pirates will work with him for two days in Bradenton, then assign him to Indianapolis, likely by Sunday.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09182/98 ... K0ZQKGTk&D

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:05 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
...So, I am not going overboard with respect to my concerns. I am just a realist. Guys who have a negative or selfish attitude can suck the life out of a team.

But there is no reason to put this label on Milledge yet. He has done nothing with the Pirates to merit classification as a selfish or negative player. I hope we can say the same thing three years from now.


Good jumping off point for the Rocco DeMaro interview with NH post game. Driving homed from a really nice game, I had to turn up the radio a bit when I heard NH respond to Rocco.

What got my attention was the amount of personality research that the NH FO did on Milledge to determine that many of his issues are a combination of the "privileged - talented one" meeting "lack of, wrong kind of, discipline" and can be considered a classic case of "rushed to the majors".

What really got my attention was when NH said the early efforts of Stark and the developmental staff will be to figure out what type of personality and learner he is. Visual, kinesthetic, imitative, and a number of other pyschological terms I'm not familiar with.

It shows me they are building a lot more than a "how to bunt properly" academy.

NH also said that there is no need to rush him to Pittsburgh, that the days of rushing a kid like him are over. His play and attitude development will determine his fate as a MLB player.

ZM


That's good info, I am glad we are running our org more professionally with the investments in this type of infrastructure. I hope NH is correct in this bet. I'm at best luke warm about this trade, but if we are to get anything out of it at all LM has to grow up. I hope he does.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates trade for Hanrahan and Milledge/Lose Morgan/Burnett
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:33 am 
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omgardd wrote:
How were you when you were 21 Bucfan? Me? I was only concerned with getting drunk, high and laid. Sometimes when I was hungover, I skipped class. I can't imagine how I'd be if I was a young hot shot baseball player making at least 6 figures at 21 years of age. I'd probably be Daryl Strawberry.

Or Brien Taylor.

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