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 Post subject: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:43 pm 
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http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/r ... spect.html


Apparently the Pirates were close to getting him and trying to for the last 2 years.
His name is Cheslor Cuthbert, 16, and he ended up signing to the Royals for 1.5 milion.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:47 pm 
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Pittsburgh paper scooped us on this one...


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:51 pm 
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I don't know much about this guy, but why would we be after a 3rd basemen. He has play 1st also or something, because with Pedro in our system i don't understand the need for him.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:55 pm 
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Pedro is moving to first he won't be playing third for long.

Also I have a question. If the pirates had put up this amazing latin america faciility and have put so much money into latin america why can they not land these guys?

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:00 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
I don't know much about this guy, but why would we be after a 3rd basemen. He has play 1st also or something, because with Pedro in our system i don't understand the need for him.


He's 16. Great chance he won't stay at 3rd. And he won't see the big leagues for 7-8 years, if ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:11 pm 
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Not much has been coming out of Nicaragua lately. It is also a long ways form the Dominican.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:32 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Pedro is moving to first he won't be playing third for long.

Also I have a question. If the pirates had put up this amazing latin america faciility and have put so much money into latin america why can they not land these guys?

Well, how many Latin American prospects have been signed so far, Ryann? You're acting as if the entire field is gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:54 am 
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Here is a link to an article on Sano from an Orioles perspective. http://masnsports.com/2009/06/more-sano-talk.html

In short they think Sano is the best DR prospect in a long time if not ever and they are likely going to join the battle. It's interesting in the comments to see some comments imploring management to outbid the Pirates.

If we start talking about Alvarez money (and I think we might be) to a 16 YO international prospect does that make sense?

I hope we get him. He sounds great, but I think when it comes to bidding wars the Pirates are unlikely to win.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:57 am 
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BostonBuc wrote:
Here is a link to an article on Sano from an Orioles perspective. http://masnsports.com/2009/06/more-sano-talk.html

In short they think Sano is the best DR prospect in a long time if not ever and they are likely going to join the battle. It's interesting in the comments to see some comments imploring management to outbid the Pirates.

If we start talking about Alvarez money (and I think we might be) to a 16 YO international prospect does that make sense?

I hope we get him. He sounds great, but I think when it comes to bidding wars the Pirates are unlikely to win.


I don't believe he is as young as he says he is. It worries me more at those ages because the difference in two years can be alot.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:09 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
BostonBuc wrote:
Here is a link to an article on Sano from an Orioles perspective. http://masnsports.com/2009/06/more-sano-talk.html

In short they think Sano is the best DR prospect in a long time if not ever and they are likely going to join the battle. It's interesting in the comments to see some comments imploring management to outbid the Pirates.

If we start talking about Alvarez money (and I think we might be) to a 16 YO international prospect does that make sense?

I hope we get him. He sounds great, but I think when it comes to bidding wars the Pirates are unlikely to win.


I don't believe he is as young as he says he is. It worries me more at those ages because the difference in two years can be alot.


I was thinking exactly the same thing in fact I was going to put the 16 in in " " :)

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:13 am 
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I didn't think the Pirates were ever really in that hunt.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:13 am 
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BostonBuc wrote:
Colin21 wrote:
BostonBuc wrote:
Here is a link to an article on Sano from an Orioles perspective. http://masnsports.com/2009/06/more-sano-talk.html

In short they think Sano is the best DR prospect in a long time if not ever and they are likely going to join the battle. It's interesting in the comments to see some comments imploring management to outbid the Pirates.

If we start talking about Alvarez money (and I think we might be) to a 16 YO international prospect does that make sense?

I hope we get him. He sounds great, but I think when it comes to bidding wars the Pirates are unlikely to win.


I don't believe he is as young as he says he is. It worries me more at those ages because the difference in two years can be alot.


I was thinking exactly the same thing in fact I was going to put the 16 in in " " :)


That is where it belongs because the difference between 16 and say 18 or 19 is pretty big. Now that age gap isn't that big, but the stage of development is the big difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:32 am 
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If you recall, the Bucs did the age check test and it came back ok. OUr scout in the DR has a pretty good grip on the situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:03 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
If you recall, the Bucs did the age check test and it came back ok. OUr scout in the DR has a pretty good grip on the situation.

Correct. The Bucs did a test that was consistent with Sano being 16 or 17.

They have had significant concerns about his age, though those might have been placated in the past week: Sano, whose 16th birthday was Monday according to Plummer, has maintained that, despite his mature physical stature, he is being truthful about his age. The Pirates, highly skeptical, conducted an investigation, one that included a bone-graft test Wednesday that assigns an age range based on DNA, and Sano's range was between 16 and 17. An investigation of birth documents is ongoing.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09135/97 ... JkGK5QRk&D


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:39 pm 
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I stand corrected on the age issue. I still have to say that as a fan I totally hope they open the wallet to get this kid but the concept of a six million dollar 16 YO international prospect scares the adult side of me.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Here is more information on DR signings in general and a mention of Sano. I personally think that it will take at least 4 and probably 5 M to sign Sano. I think that could go up even more if another team just "goes for broke".

I hate to sound like a pessimist but I see very little hope of the Pirates winning a bidding war with anyone. I am also concerned by the fact that someone we supposedly liked just signed for twice what we offered. That is either a) an intentional low ball offer or b) our judgement of the market value of players is way off. I think B is far more likely and that's not encouraging. I frankly see no reason why we would do A and I can't think of any other legitimate justifications for the difference. I am open for suggestions however.

Here is the link to the article about the Cardinals signing another Outfielder that mentions Sano:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/international-affairs/2009/268441.html

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:54 pm 
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I think Sano is worth 5 million bonus. He is a very talented player and what the Pirates need. They need to stop themselves from cheaping out and sign the kid!

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:39 am 
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Ryann wrote:
I think Sano is worth 5 million bonus. He is a very talented player and what the Pirates need. They need to stop themselves from cheaping out and sign the kid!


I don't disagree conceptually that they should sign him. But what if he goes for 7.5, or 10, or 100M? Are you always cheaping it if you don't pay the most? Certainly an offer of 10M wouldn't be cheaping it even if they were outbid.

High school kids have statistically more risk then college kids. International more than domestic. As a fan I don't care what they pay if he is good, but in reality some limits have to exist. I'm just trying to get a discussion on what people think those limits should be.

If we offer something greater than 5M and he goes to Baltimore for 6, I can live w/ that. I won't like it, but I think that's a reasonable offer. If I had to guess, I think it's likely to be more than 5M from us but in the end Baltimore will pay more.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:25 am 
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BostonBuc wrote:
Ryann wrote:
I think Sano is worth 5 million bonus. He is a very talented player and what the Pirates need. They need to stop themselves from cheaping out and sign the kid!


I don't disagree conceptually that they should sign him. But what if he goes for 7.5, or 10, or 100M? Are you always cheaping it if you don't pay the most? Certainly an offer of 10M wouldn't be cheaping it even if they were outbid.

High school kids have statistically more risk then college kids. International more than domestic. As a fan I don't care what they pay if he is good, but in reality some limits have to exist. I'm just trying to get a discussion on what people think those limits should be.

If we offer something greater than 5M and he goes to Baltimore for 6, I can live w/ that. I won't like it, but I think that's a reasonable offer. If I had to guess, I think it's likely to be more than 5M from us but in the end Baltimore will pay more.

Then we should pay 6.5 I think 7 million should be our limit and is more then enough to sign him.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates Lose out on Nicaraguan Prospect.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:30 am 
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I bet it is going to be a bidding war and it is going to get up to near $10 million. I think the Pirates will finish 3rd or 4th in the running. I think he will go to Baltimore for $10 million, and i think the Cardinals will be the runners up at this point. I think the Pirates will put a max offer of $7 million on the table.


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