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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:55 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Wow, a baseball coach without a lifting program. And I thought my kid's high school coach was dumb. Now you know why the high school team is not the most important team. See you at the Sr. Fall Classic. Fallon will love him. Amongst many others.


Our coach has no lifting program either. Just certain excercises with medicine balls, but no true lifting program in anyway. We can lift after practice or games if we want to, but he doesn't tell us to or endorse it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:49 am 
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I am still amazed. ryann, find a sports trainer or someone at the Y. Better yet, if you are serious about it, do yourself a favor and do a google search to help yourself out. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:24 am 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
I am still amazed. ryann, find a sports trainer or someone at the Y. Better yet, if you are serious about it, do yourself a favor and do a google search to help yourself out. :roll:


I do it with friends. Just bench and stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:47 am 
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Ryann wrote:
I do it with friends. Just bench and stuff.

Son consults with a trainer. Additionally, one of the coaches at the camp is going to e-mail son the team's workout regimen. Bench press is not an exercise that will help you with baseball.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:54 am 
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Well, given Ryann's age, I can't disagree with the coach.

He is just now getting to the point where weight benefits outpace potential negatives in a developing body.

Lifting weights at too young an age can wreak as much havoc on the joints and tendons as a curve ball.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:08 am 
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True but you can avoid injury with light weight, more reps.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:44 am 
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Or, you can get the same benefits using some "old School" excercise like a medicine ball, or push ups and pull ups along with stretching.

Or, just let 'em play 6 differant sports and let 'em cross train naturally by playing each.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:31 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Well, given Ryann's age, I can't disagree with the coach.

He is just now getting to the point where weight benefits outpace potential negatives in a developing body.

Lifting weights at too young an age can wreak as much havoc on the joints and tendons as a curve ball.

ZM

As Az points out, and as is true with everything, it is all a matter of degree. Lifting weights in an appropriate fashion - that is, the right amount of weight, during the appropriate number of days - does not cause harm. The opposite is true. Proper weight lifting develops muscles, increases strength, increases metabolism, and has no harmful effect.

The idea that weight lifting "can wreak havoc on the joints and tendons" is simply not true. Joints and tendons are helped by proper weight training.

And by the way, that point is underscored by this post:

ZelieMike wrote:
Or, you can get the same benefits using some "old School" excercise like a medicine ball, or push ups and pull ups ... ZM


You mean resistance exercise? Like weight training? Push-ups, pull-ups, etc. are a variation of resistance exercise that does not do as a good a job, or as safe a job, as weight training.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Interesting.

Never heard how using your own bodie's weight for strength training is harmful.

Problem with weight training at a young age is that it almost invariably becomes overused and the young bucks want to "push" it and expand their limits. That is only natural, and is the cause of the problems.

It is much safer and just as effective to use your own body weight, IMO.

Just ask a Seal.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:54 pm 
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I feel the biggest problem with lifting at an early age is that the bones, joints and their connections are not fully developed and over use will cause problems. Another good method for younger players is the use of resistance bands. No. 2 has been using these since age 8 and has had no ill effects. They are also of great benefit for arm strength and leg strength to a lesser degree.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:00 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Interesting.

Never heard how using your own bodie's weight for strength training is harmful.
ZM

I don't take the position that resistance exercise is harmful; you do.

ZelieMike wrote:
Problem with weight training at a young age is that it almost invariably becomes overused and the young bucks want to "push" it and expand their limits. That is only natural, and is the cause of the problems.
ZM

Once again, this presumes that the athlete overtrains. If one presumes improper methods and training and presumes that injury results, then one can do so with using a medicine ball, push-ups and chin-ups.

By the way - chin-ups put a lot of strain on the shoulders. If your body weight is 180 lbs., chin-ups put that amount of weight on the shoulders.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:06 pm 
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In my PE classes for grades 6-8, we stress technique and do not allow over use or extreme weight. In fact for the 6 graders and some 7th grade classes, I set up the amount of weight on bars and will not let the students change it. Last thing I say, every class, before they start their circuits is "What's the most important thing in the weight room?" They must all chime in "Safety". If a student is not safe he gets one warning. On the second infraction, he is done for the day. A third infraction and they are done for good in the weight room and I call home to inform the parents of the situation. Too many ways to get hurt badly in the weight room. ie. that former Steeler who was benching alone and dropped the bar on his neck causing his death.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:10 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
I don't take the position that resistance exercise is harmful; you do.


No, that is NOT my position. You are equating resistance training with weight training and they are not.


Quote:
Once again, this presumes that the athlete overtrains. If one presumes improper methods and training and presumes that injury results, then one can do so with using a medicine ball, push-ups and chin-ups.


Yes, it does and that is almost invariably the case. I've been there seen it, done it. If your son used weights at an early age, and used it lightly, he would be the exception to the rule. Which is why the trainers I know don't even touch free weights for younger kids.

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By the way - chin-ups put a lot of strain on the shoulders. If your body weight is 180 lbs., chin-ups put that amount of weight on the shoulders.


What young kid of 10-13 typically weighs 180 lb Bucfan? And, if he does, I can almost guarantee you that he won't be to do ONE chin up, much less stress his body.

'ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:13 pm 
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In a class of 30-35 kids, I would be lucky to have 3-4 who could even do 3 chin ups. You should see the general physical condition of kids these days. Of course we are talking about the general population not athletes. That's a whole 'nother discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:15 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
In my PE classes for grades 6-8, we stress technique and do not allow over use or extreme weight.

Exactly. Proper weight training, under proper supervision, gives benefit. However, any improper training, be it with weights or chin-ups, is problematic.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:25 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
No, that is NOT my position. You are equating resistance training with weight training and they are not.
ZM

Uhhhhhm ... resistance exercise includes, but is not limited to, weight training.

ZelieMike wrote:
Yes, it does and that is almost invariably the case. I've been there seen it, done it. If your son used weights at an early age, and used it lightly, he would be the exception to the rule. Which is why the trainers I know don't even touch free weights for younger kids.
ZM

Weight training is used by just about every football team, from freshman year on. The benefit of having a weight program with a team is that the lifting is supervised and controlled.

Once again, you presume that weight training will be overdone and injury will result. Well, if we presume such outcome, then working with a medicine ball or doing push-ups will simply inspire the youth to move on to "harder" exercises, such as bigger medicine balls, or doing push-ups with weights on his back. That leads to free weights.

You are guilty of pushing the "gateway" dru ... err, exercises. Yeah, that's right. You know what I call a guy who champions push-ups? A pusher.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:29 pm 
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Pushups actually work the pectorals predominately.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:32 pm 
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Always fun bantering with the Bucfan.

Technically, you are correct about wt vs. resistance. BUT, there are significant differance so that "resistance" training is considered limited and focused range of motion excercise with a band or your body wt that you stop at once your ability is maximized.

Wts on the other hand have no such restriction in range of motion that requires technique way more than resistance, and can and does cause lots of problems.

Its a gateway to health, baby, a gateway to health.

I should try it sometime.

Easier to hit the bottom shelf scotch though and let ZelieKim grab the glory.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:45 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Last thing I say, every class, before they start their circuits is "What's the most important thing in the weight room?"


I knew alot guys in high school who would have said, make sure you flex in every mirror and show off for the girls on their way to the locker room, and look good while you're lifting

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 Post subject: Re: Bucfan's son throwing serious HEAT
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:56 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
I knew alot guys in high school who would have said, make sure you flex in every mirror and show off for the girls on their way to the locker room, and look good while you're lifting

See, that was extremely tough for me, since I look good all the time. :D


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