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 Post subject: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:43 pm 
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Vasquez has been put into the rotation. I am dubious that he lasts more than 4 or 5 starts. He is a guy who gives up a lot of hits and unfortunately more than a few of those leave the park.

He is a stop-gap, a place-holder. I hope that Daniel McCutchen continues his good work of late and is ready to take the 5th spot in the rotation before the end of July. In his last 3 starts, McCutchen has pitched 20 innings, giving up just 14 hits, 3 walks, 10 K's and just 1 HR allowed. He has been troubled by HR's in years past, but has done a better job this year, giving up 8 in 74 innings and (as noted) 1 in his past 3 starts combined.

For the year, McCutchen is 5-5 with a 4.34 ERA. In 74 2/3 innings, he has given up 74 hits, just 20 BB's, with 60 K's. If he continues to keep the ball in the park, his good control will make him a good starting pitcher in the majors.

I mention this because, as noted, I doubt that Vasequez is a long-term solution.


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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:26 pm 
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I think that will depend on Vasquez and Gorzo. If Gorzo continues to improve, he has a much higher ceiling than Vasquez. I think they will give them both a couple more starts and then re-evaluate. What you don't want to do is have Gorzo come up and fail because he is out of options, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:06 pm 
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I have never been able to understand their fascination with Vasquez. With Gorzo and McCutchen at AAA, I would much rather see one of these guys(with upside) get the call. There may be other factors(as brad mentioned about options) but from a pure baseball standpoint this one doesn't make sense to me.

I'm with you on this one Bucfan...this guy won't last long.


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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:08 pm 
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bradf wrote:
I think that will depend on Vasquez and Gorzo. If Gorzo continues to improve, he has a much higher ceiling than Vasquez. I think they will give them both a couple more starts and then re-evaluate. What you don't want to do is have Gorzo come up and fail because he is out of options, I think.

Speaking of which - Gorzo went 5 innings for a win in his last start, giving up 2 hits, 2 walks, 1 run with 7 K's. Since returning to Indy, Gorzo has pitched 9 innings, surrendering 4 hits, 3 walks, with 9 K's and 2 runs allowed.


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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:09 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
I have never been able to understand their fascination with Vasquez. With Gorzo and McCutchen at AAA, I would much rather see one of these guys(with upside) get the call. There may be other factors(as brad mentioned about options) but from a pure baseball standpoint this one doesn't make sense to me.

I'm guessing that they don't want to start McCutchen's clock until next season. If he was super ready, maybe you bring him up, but if he's only kinda ready, let him get more seasoning in AAA. I'm fine with that. I'm sure Gorzo will get the call if Vasquez falters.


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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:11 pm 
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Atleast if Vazquez doesnt pan out well in the rotation, Karstens can move back to the rotation and send Vazquez to the pen, until Gorzo or McCutchen the pitcher finally develop or until Dr. Andrews is allowed perform a labotamy on Snell

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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:17 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
I'm guessing that they don't want to start McCutchen's clock until next season.

I don't believe that "super two" status is a problem in bringing up D-Cutch. Pirates waited until A-Cutch was safe from the super two effect before bringing him up on June 3.

The rule is as follows:

"Known as Super Two players, the rules say that if a player ... has at least 2 years 86 days of service time after his third season, he will be eligible for arbitration if his service time ranks in the top 17 percent of all the players in his class. Teams try to exploit this rule by planning the promotion of their prospects to fall within the window in which they will not qualify, thus gaining the so-called free year."

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/super-two-players/

The likelihood that D-Cutch would rank in the top 17 percent of all starting pitchers at the end of the year, even if brought up right now, is basically zero.


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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:30 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
I'm guessing that they don't want to start McCutchen's clock until next season.

I don't believe that "super two" status is a problem in bringing up D-Cutch. Pirates waited until A-Cutch was safe from the super two effect before bringing him up on June 3.

Yeah. I understand that. I was talking more about his major league service clock. I know that super 2 is not an issue for this season.


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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:13 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Yeah. I understand that. I was talking more about his major league service clock.

Since his play this year would not trigger "super two" status for D-Cutch, this year would have no effect on service time. The Pirates would still have control over his contract for the next six years, beginning the first year that he is accorded the necessary major league service time. This year would be called the "free year" since it would have no effect on service time.


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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:40 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
Yeah. I understand that. I was talking more about his major league service clock.

Since his play this year would not trigger "super two" status for D-Cutch, this year would have no effect on service time. The Pirates would still have control over his contract for the next six years, beginning the first year that he is accorded the necessary major league service time. This year would be called the "free year" since it would have no effect on service time.

Free agency is based on total major league service time, right? So, if they bring him up at the start of next year, the partial year would make no difference. But if they don't bring him up this year and then he spends even one day in the minors next year, it buys another year. Or at least that's the way I understand it. Do you see it differently?


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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:01 pm 
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Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Q7b-vHY3Q

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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:04 pm 
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7 Ks in 6 IP. I must say that I am pleasantly surprised.

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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:08 pm 
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We should all be pleased. He sis a hell of a job tonight. He can stay for awhile. Looked good.

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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:09 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
I'm guessing that they don't want to start McCutchen's clock until next season.

I don't believe that "super two" status is a problem in bringing up D-Cutch. Pirates waited until A-Cutch was safe from the super two effect before bringing him up on June 3.

The rule is as follows:

"Known as Super Two players, the rules say that if a player ... has at least 2 years 86 days of service time after his third season, he will be eligible for arbitration if his service time ranks in the top 17 percent of all the players in his class. Teams try to exploit this rule by planning the promotion of their prospects to fall within the window in which they will not qualify, thus gaining the so-called free year."

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/super-two-players/

The likelihood that D-Cutch would rank in the top 17 percent of all starting pitchers at the end of the year, even if brought up right now, is basically zero.


Thanks for this. That's good info that I didn't know because the GM stuff gets very complex especially in MLB vs. other sports.

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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:13 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Q7b-vHY3Q




Hahahahahhahahahahah funniest shit forever....


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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:16 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Q7b-vHY3Q

Good stuff but you'd think bucco boy of all people would know how to do this:



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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:17 pm 
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I just added the feature Burgher. Good to see someone is paying attention. It took me some research, but it looks like it works well.

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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:18 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Q7b-vHY3Q

Good stuff but you'd think bucco boy of all people would know how to do this:




"you're killing me Smalls!"


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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:19 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
I just added the feature Burgher. Good to see someone is paying attention. It took me some research, but it looks like it works well.

Heh. I just noticed the button. Had no idea how long it had been there. Obviously not "forever".


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 Post subject: Re: Virgil Vasquez: How long does he stay in rotation?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:24 am 
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burghermeister wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
I just added the feature Burgher. Good to see someone is paying attention. It took me some research, but it looks like it works well.

Heh. I just noticed the button. Had no idea how long it had been there. Obviously not "forever".


I'm lost. I thought it was my generation that is susposed to be tech savy. Can somebody explain to me what "button" is being talked about?


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