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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:25 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
What do you know, curve? You couldn't possibly have the depth of knowledge that Ryann has. It's not like you see these guys play every day or anything....

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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:44 pm 
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Hey Ryann, like my good friend Brian Fantana once said...

"Take it easy, Champ. Why don't you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while."


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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
So really you think if you put anyone and have them watch 100 games they will be the new expert on that team and no exactly when it is time to promote those players? :roll:

I believe that such person, with some knowledge of the game, would be VASTLY more competent to provide commentary on the players than, say, a guy who has never seen them play.

How's that?


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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:49 pm 
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And yet I have seen them play in spring training.

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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:49 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
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Here is where Ryann sees them:

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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:20 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
And yet I have seen them play in spring training.

Which is just like the regular season, right? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:02 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
And yet I have seen them play in spring training.

Which is just like the regular season, right? :roll:


Like the minors is just like the majors, right? :roll:



:lol:
Wilton you make yourself look like an idiot.

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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:35 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
And yet I have seen them play in spring training.

Which is just like the regular season, right? :roll:

That Brad Eldred guy was pretty good in spring training. We should get him back. I saw him play in spring training. He's way better than Laroche.


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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:37 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
And yet I have seen them play in spring training.

Which is just like the regular season, right? :roll:


Like the minors is just like the majors, right? :roll:



:lol:
Wilton you make yourself look like an idiot.

In the minor league regular season, there's something to play for. There is nothing to play for in spring training. The pitchers aren't even trying very hard in ST. Furthermore, ST lasts for one month, and Alvarez did not even play the entire month. You are a fool to make a snap judgment on a player based on a small sample size of non-competitive baseball.

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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:39 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
And yet I have seen them play in spring training.

Which is just like the regular season, right? :roll:

That Brad Eldred guy was pretty good in spring training. We should get him back. I saw him play in spring training. He's way better than Laroche.

That Jose Castillo fella was pretty awesome on spring training too. He was so good that he won his position in spring training, only to proceed to suck terribly thereafter.

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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Willton wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
Ryann wrote:
And yet I have seen them play in spring training.

That Brad Eldred guy was pretty good in spring training. We should get him back. I saw him play in spring training. He's way better than Laroche.

That Jose Castillo fella was pretty awesome on spring training too. He was so good that he won his position in spring training, only to proceed to suck terribly thereafter.


Or how about that stud who threw to the tune of a 2.05 ERA one spring? What was that fella's name? Vogle-something or other...


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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:55 pm 
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See Mark Johnson.


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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:39 pm 
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That brad eldred tore up the minors too.
Just like lincoln and mccutchen.
Maybe we should give up on them.
You see your sarcastic remarks just make you guys look stupid. I saw the guy perform in spring training not have good stats but show me his talent level he is ready.

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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:43 pm 
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Please read your last sentence in the above post and please explain what you mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:44 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Please read your last sentence in the above post and please explain what you mean.


I mean I saw through Spring Training that Alvarez talent wise was ready.
Not the good stats but the talent level is what I saw.
I think Alvarez should get a september call up.
Same with Lincoln.
And Tabata or Hernandez should be in AAA at the end of the season.

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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:46 pm 
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That's better since you never mentioned Alvarez at any other point in the post.


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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:10 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
That brad eldred tore up the minors too.
Just like lincoln and mccutchen.
Maybe we should give up on them.

Minor league performance is a vastly superior predictor of major league performance than spring training play. The reasons for this are numerous: field conditions and wind during spring games, the fact that a veteran pitcher might be working on a pitch and not care about the score, the quality of defenders on the field during spring games, the fact that pitchers go only a limited number of pitches even if they are throwing brilliantly, etc.

Is minor league performance a perfect predictor for major league productivity? Of course not. But it is soooo much better than spring training performance that there is simply no dispute on the point. None.

In fact, in 2006, one writer offered the following assessment about spring training performance:

Readers often ask me how much spring performance affects my forecasts, especially if we were to compare the Opening Day set to the first set published back in December. In reality, spring performances rarely are a large enough sample for me to make a new conclusion about a player's true, hidden and current skill level. ... Not only are hitters and pitchers facing unusual competition, such as a top pitcher in the first inning and, later in the same game, a Single-A pitcher with no chance to make it, but the situation and playing time of spring training is so unusual that it's dangerous to jump to any conclusions. That even April big league performance is not necessarily a reliable indicator of how a player does for the remainder of the season should underscore just how cautiously we must approach spring data.

http://www.baseballnotebook.com/essay.a ... +Surprises

Another baseball writer observed:

Essentially the entire field of baseball research (and even a good deal of baseball traditionalists) recognize that spring training stats are meaningless. Good or bad spring training stats tell you basically nothing about how good of a season a particular player or team is going to have. The two sets of stats simply do not correlate and a variety of studies have proven this.

http://www.royalsreview.com/2009/2/26/7 ... -stats-are

That article did note one apparent, very limited exception: batters whose slugging percentage is at least 100 points above his career average appear to have a higher slugging percentage during the regular season. However, that exception has no application to your observation of young players with no track record in the major leagues.

In 2003, Joel Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus wrote an article entitled, "Spring Training Stats Mean Nothing." He went on to write, "Is there anything as meaningless as a stat sheet on March 10? ... Sample size is the obvious reason to be dismissive of exhibition stats, and it's the one we've been pounding on for years. No one gets enough playing time in preseason for the performance to mean anything. Of course, teams make rash decisions based on limited evidence in all months, so there's no reason to expect March to be any different."

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=1717

These are three credible sources, proving what we know from experience. Spring training performance and spring training stats mean nothing.

Do you have some contrary evidence? And by this I mean evidence, information, data, reference materials, articles, publications, or information from any credible source, supporting your claim that spring training performance is as valuable a predictor of major league performance as is minor league performance?


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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:20 pm 
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But I am making my assesment of the talent level I saw from him during spring training. Not the numbers or his batting line in games but watching the workouts and seeing how he reacts to situations in games and his physical ability.

Read what I say before you waste your energy typing that much! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:19 am 
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Ryann wrote:
But I am making my assesment of the talent level I saw from him during spring training. Not the numbers or his batting line in games but watching the workouts and seeing how he reacts to situations in games and his physical ability.

Well, now, that is compelling evidence. Spring training workouts are a very good basis for deciding that a player is ready to play in the majors and certainly much more reliable than minor league performance in actual games, against real competition.

Of course, I guess that you forgot that you stated the following:

Ryann wrote:
curveradio wrote:
Ryann.. have you seen these guys actually play or are you going by the stats?? Just curious


Spring training watches and stats.


Last edited by Bucfan on Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Curve Game this Afternoon
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:20 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Ryann wrote:
But I am making my assesment of the talent level I saw from him during spring training. Not the numbers or his batting line in games but watching the workouts and seeing how he reacts to situations in games and his physical ability.

Well, now, that is compelling evidence. Spring training workouts are a very good basis for deciding that a player is ready to play in the majors and certainly much more reliable than minor league performance in actual games, against real competition.


Yes workouts and game situations.
I made an argument, a valid one, and you cannot accept that.

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