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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:17 am 
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bradf wrote:
Wilton, et al:

There is an old hillbilly saying that may fit this whole argument...."Never wrestle with a pig, you will both end up covered in pig sh!t, but the pig likes it."

Fair point. I should know better.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:24 am 
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I think Ryann just gets a hard on by listening to himself bitch.

I also notice he didn't address the points I made that shoot gaping holes in his theory. When Tabata, Alvarez and others start playing in Pittsburgh, me thinks Ryann and the like will be cheering along and saying "I knew we were turning things around!!"

Meanwhile, those of us in reality will read those posts with one of these. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:04 am 
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VanSlick wrote:
I think Ryann just gets a hard on by listening to himself bitch.

I also notice he didn't address the points I made that shoot gaping holes in his theory. When Tabata, Alvarez and others start playing in Pittsburgh, me thinks Ryann and the like will be cheering along and saying "I knew we were turning things around!!"

Meanwhile, those of us in reality will read those posts with one of these. :roll:




I noticed you haven't addressed any of my points.

When tabata, alvarez and others begin playing in pittsburgh soon enough they will be shipped out for "more prospects" because the pirates always trade their best players for prospects. Look at the last 17 years! They can't afford to keep those players so they will trade them 3-5 years after they come up fromthe minors.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:14 am 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Gotta play pretty much year round to move on to the next level unless you are a phenom like the Harper kid in Las Vegas. If you have the talent you need to get on a travel team or you will fall behind the guys that do. I know a some folks don't agree with that but it is almost essential for your development as a player.

Agree with Az. You get better by playing against the best. Wilton comments on making baseball a career, but that is not nearly as important as having a sport be an important part of a student's life.

The VAST majority of varsity athletes do not become professional athletes. However, a very large percentage go on to participate in college sports. Those student athletes have access to an education because of the participation in sports.

By the way, all students have free time. My kids have gone to diving training, diving camps, junior nationals, baseball camps, travel ball, all-star tournaments, etc. They have not engaged in stupid as much as a lot of other kids.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:34 am 
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Quote:
My kids have gone to diving training, diving camps, junior nationals, baseball camps, travel ball, all-star tournaments, etc. They have not engaged in stupid as much as a lot of other kids.


I'm not saying your kids, but don't put it past kids to do good things like this and still get involved in stupid activities as well. When the spotlight comes so do alot of people that want to be your friends or be seen with you, and not all of them are good people.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:39 am 
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bradf wrote:
Wilton, et al:

There is an old hillbilly saying that may fit this whole argument...."Never wrestle with a pig, you will both end up covered in pig sh!t, but the pig likes it."


Also...don't try to teach a pig to sing...it sounds terrible...and it only annoys the pig.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:42 am 
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Ignore lists are a wonderful thing.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:07 am 
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VanSlick wrote:
Estrago and Ryann,

I posted this a couple of weeks ago and I think it needs repeating.

If the ownership was SOOOO happy to keep losing and raking in the cash, why bother with hiring a new GM? Or building a state of the art recruiting facility in the Dominican Republic?

Seems like those would be gigantic wastes of money, if you had no interest in trying to change the fortunes of your team.

Your theory is a conspiracy theory, simple as that. Truth is, this organization was managed HORRIBLY for more than a decade. It goes beyond the line up in Pittsburgh. You are only as good as your farm system, PERIOD.

Huntington gets that, where others didn't. Give Huntington 4 years to right the ship. If he doesn't, then you can scream.


Who said anything about a conspiracy or ownership was happy to keep losing? Owernship's priorty is to make money first. When you are always near the bottom of payroll, that speaks for itself. Do they try and win? Sure but with limitations. Does the market of Pittsburgh have something to do with it? Sure but many other similar markets have teams with much higher payrolls.

Most of the people who back what the ownership does has supported whatever management did and the team throughout the record breaking losing streak. As stated again, emotions get in the way of common sense. Untill this team wins, nothing will prove that ownership/management are making the right moves. What have been the constants troughout the losing? Low payroll, trading better players for hasbeens and prospects...the trend continues.
I'm not screaming. I dont go or watch anymore. I've put them on ignore

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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:22 am 
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estrago wrote:
VanSlick wrote:
Estrago and Ryann,

I posted this a couple of weeks ago and I think it needs repeating.

If the ownership was SOOOO happy to keep losing and raking in the cash, why bother with hiring a new GM? Or building a state of the art recruiting facility in the Dominican Republic?

Seems like those would be gigantic wastes of money, if you had no interest in trying to change the fortunes of your team.

Your theory is a conspiracy theory, simple as that. Truth is, this organization was managed HORRIBLY for more than a decade. It goes beyond the line up in Pittsburgh. You are only as good as your farm system, PERIOD.

Huntington gets that, where others didn't. Give Huntington 4 years to right the ship. If he doesn't, then you can scream.


Who said anything about a conspiracy or ownership was happy to keep losing? Owernship's priorty is to make money first. When you are always near the bottom of payroll, that speaks for itself. Do they try and win? Sure but with limitations. Does the market of Pittsburgh have something to do with it? Sure but many other similar markets have teams with much higher payrolls.

Most of the people who back what the ownership does has supported whatever management did and the team throughout the record breaking losing streak. As stated again, emotions get in the way of common sense. Untill this team wins, nothing will prove that ownership/management are making the right moves. What have been the constants troughout the losing? Low payroll, trading better players for hasbeens and prospects...the trend continues.
I'm not screaming. I dont go or watch anymore. I've put them on ignore


I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:02 am 
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Hey Ryann,

Since you're psychic and know exactly what the Pirates will do 3-5 years down the road, can you pick out some winning lottery numbers for me? That's quite a gift you have.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:04 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
I'm not saying your kids, but don't put it past kids to do good things like this and still get involved in stupid activities as well. When the spotlight comes so do alot of people that want to be your friends or be seen with you, and not all of them are good people.

No guarantees one way or another, but following a path that has more positive results than negative is the way to go. As between getting involved in regular physical activity, becoming part of a team, staying fit, and engaging in competition vs. sitting on the couch and hanging out with others who have such free time, I take the former.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:05 pm 
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Colin, your point about people wanting to hang with you because of what you are, not who you are holds a lot of truth. I have pounded this in the ears of both of my sons for some time now and they understand it. This is particularly evident with members of the opposite sex. No. 2 son got sucked into a situation like this last year and learned the lesson. Fortunately he suffered no consequences other than "wow, what did I almost get myself into". He also actually helped the girl out by going to her mother and informing her of a situation that could have resulted in grave circumstances. The girl's mother actually called him and thanked him for giving her the heads up. No. 1, for better or for worse, is just too damn bullheaded to let most outside influences sway him one way or the other. He learned his lesson in peer pressure and it's pitfalls long ago. These are tough lessons to learn but we all go through it at one time or another.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:11 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
Gotta play pretty much year round to move on to the next level unless you are a phenom like the Harper kid in Las Vegas. If you have the talent you need to get on a travel team or you will fall behind the guys that do. I know a some folks don't agree with that but it is almost essential for your development as a player.

Agree with Az. You get better by playing against the best. Wilton comments on making baseball a career, but that is not nearly as important as having a sport be an important part of a student's life.

The VAST majority of varsity athletes do not become professional athletes. However, a very large percentage go on to participate in college sports. Those student athletes have access to an education because of the participation in sports.

By the way, all students have free time. My kids have gone to diving training, diving camps, junior nationals, baseball camps, travel ball, all-star tournaments, etc. They have not engaged in stupid as much as a lot of other kids.

Now hold on. There's merit to playing sports, but AZBF was speaking in terms of one's "development as a player." I read that as "getting good enough to play college ball or professional ball." Um, what if that is of no interest to the student athlete? Half of the students in my high school played a high school sport, and yet I can probably count on one hand the number of people in my high school graduation class that went on to play a college sport, most of whom were women. Most high school kids just want to be social, and all that travel-team business can really cut into the social aspects of high school life. You may poo-poo the free time kids spend in non-organized activities, but that's how many people develop relationships with others. A high schooler should only be doing the travel team stuff if he wants to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:31 pm 
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You make valid points Wilton. The best one is "if they want to". I can honestly say I have never pushed my kid in any one direction. We have simply exposed our kids to a variety of things and allowed them to choose what they want to do and support them in any way possible. It would not have mattered to me what they chose to pursue. My No.2 son is a springboard and platform diver and I know nothing of the sport. I don't even dive head first into the pool in my back yard. Passion is what takes over from initial interest and breeds success.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:52 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Wilton you are wrong because either way they took the cheapness route in the most important round the first!


Ryann I see now what you are up against. Being only in 10th grade, you were not privy to the legendary teams that the Pirates had in the 70's or even the early 90's.

What you are stating in your arguments is information taken from national media, it is their perspective that you are regurgitating. Sportscenter and other national outlets enjoy dumping on the Pirates with various surficial stories about how the Pirates are going to lose for the 17th straight year. What they don't really have is an insight into the entire organization and how it has changed drastically in only a short period of time. You must understand, Littlefield left this team with an entire Minor league system full of journeyman and very little talent.

My advice to you is to forget about the past, it does nobody any good to argue about the past since neither Neil or Frank are operating anything close to the old regime. Focus on the future, take some time to review the prospects that are now in the system, maybe you might start to see the future.

I would give anything to live in Pittsburgh, I'd go to multiple Pirates games every year, instead I am stuck down here in Baltimore with all the Ratbird fans that are useless. Speaking of Baltimore, take a good look at that team, they actually have money to spend and they still can't get it right.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:28 pm 
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^ Very well said.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:14 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
Gotta play pretty much year round to move on to the next levelunless you are a phenom like the Harper kid in Las Vegas. If you have the talent you need to get on a travel team or you will fall behind the guys that do. I know a some folks don't agree with that but it is almost essential for your development as a player.

Agree with Az. You get better by playing against the best.

Now hold on. There's merit to playing sports, but AZBF was speaking in terms of one's "development as a player."

Read the highlighted portions. I stand by my observation when you put my comment in context.

The problem here, Wilton, is that you had an ongoing discussion. I was not part of that, nor commenting on it. I was responding to the point made by Az and highlighted in the section above.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:22 pm 
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estrago wrote:
VanSlick wrote:
Estrago and Ryann,

I posted this a couple of weeks ago and I think it needs repeating.

If the ownership was SOOOO happy to keep losing and raking in the cash, why bother with hiring a new GM? Or building a state of the art recruiting facility in the Dominican Republic?

Seems like those would be gigantic wastes of money, if you had no interest in trying to change the fortunes of your team.

Your theory is a conspiracy theory, simple as that. Truth is, this organization was managed HORRIBLY for more than a decade. It goes beyond the line up in Pittsburgh. You are only as good as your farm system, PERIOD.

Huntington gets that, where others didn't. Give Huntington 4 years to right the ship. If he doesn't, then you can scream.


Who said anything about a conspiracy or ownership was happy to keep losing? Owernship's priorty is to make money first. When you are always near the bottom of payroll, that speaks for itself. Do they try and win? Sure but with limitations. Does the market of Pittsburgh have something to do with it? Sure but many other similar markets have teams with much higher payrolls.

Most of the people who back what the ownership does has supported whatever management did and the team throughout the record breaking losing streak. As stated again, emotions get in the way of common sense. Untill this team wins, nothing will prove that ownership/management are making the right moves. What have been the constants troughout the losing? Low payroll, trading better players for hasbeens and prospects...the trend continues.
I'm not screaming. I dont go or watch anymore. I've put them on ignore




I think you are all wrong. I quote bullish because he said it best yet no one gives him any credit.



"Low payroll, trading better players for hasbeens and prospects...the trend continues."

The Pirates are doing the same trend as the last 17 years. Now the question is if there is any way it can finally work and im skeptical to think that it will.

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