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 Post subject: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:30 pm 
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How much longer is this joke going to go on? Seriously how have the Pirates shown they are commited to winning? It doesn't look like they are trying. They always get these "prospects". The aramis ramirez deal is the very similiar to the Jason Bay deal. We got low upside major league ready prospects. That is what the pirates do. At least Littlefield made it appear the pirates wanted to win by getting some veterans even if they were past their prime and he spent to much money on them. This team now spends no money. The pirates are the worst organization in sports. They continue to sell their promotions, bobbleheads, fireworks, pierogi races, hot dog shoot, bucco, t shirt toss ,and mystery box. While they continue to hide the fact of they spend little money on talent for the major league team and trade their best players for prospects every season. Now they have these "prospects" many of them won't pan out they will be lucky if a few do. Really the only prospects i see being good pro players are alvarez, tabata, lincoln, hernandez. We have traded more then what we have gotten in return the headline in 6-8 years will be. "Pirates trade McCutchen/Get 4 Prospects".

So Here is my question how much longer will you wait for the Pirates to win? Is your limit 20 straight losing seasons? 25,30,50?

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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Ryann, we get your point...

You dont need to repeat it over and over again...

It's getting old...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:32 pm 
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Answer the Question. You people don't get my point because you try to defend everything the team does.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:35 pm 
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Any shred of credibility you might have had is lost by comparing the Jason Bay trade to the Aramis Ramirez trade. And, you really think it appeared better under Littlefield??? Wow!!!


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:41 pm 
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38.79


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:44 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
38.79


I'm going 38.78...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:47 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Answer the Question. You people don't get my point because you try to defend everything the team does.


Things don't happen over night. Our whole minor league system was crap. Everything needed fixed. 1 or 2 players aren't going to make a real difference. Bay had to be traded because he wasn't going to re-sign in Pittsburgh even if we would offer him 15+ million a year.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:56 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Argentum wrote:
38.79


I'm going 38.78...


You are nutz, they're going to win 38.785 years from now and you're going to miss it!!


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:58 pm 
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Jack Round Tripper wrote:
Any shred of credibility you might have had is lost by comparing the Jason Bay trade to the Aramis Ramirez trade. And, you really think it appeared better under Littlefield??? Wow!!!


Once again you twist my words. I said this.
The bay trade is looking like aramis ramirez trade. Bay we got 3 low upside major league ready prospects and one injured pitching prospect. In the aramis deal we got lower upside major league ready prospects. And both were traded due to salary reasons in the future.

And i said that littlefield made it look like he was trying signing some free agents for a lot of money even though they turned out to be terrible.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:48 pm 
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I will be a fan for life. How's that?
Bay was traded because we probably could not sign him even if we wanted to. We received 4 players.
Ramirez was traded because of his salary at the time. It was basically mandated by MLB. We received 2 players.
Big difference.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:53 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Jack Round Tripper wrote:
Any shred of credibility you might have had is lost by comparing the Jason Bay trade to the Aramis Ramirez trade. And, you really think it appeared better under Littlefield??? Wow!!!


Once again you twist my words. I said this.
The bay trade is looking like aramis ramirez trade. Bay we got 3 low upside major league ready prospects and one injured pitching prospect. In the aramis deal we got lower upside major league ready prospects. And both were traded due to salary reasons in the future.

And again, the two trades are incomparable. Jason Bay was not traded due to salary concerns; indeed, the Pirates were more than capable of paying Jason Bay for the rest of his contract with the Bucs. If the Bucs wanted to get rid of Bay due to salary concerns, they would have traded him long before the 2008 season started. Further, if the front office was so darn concerned about money, Jack Wilson would have been out the door last season as well. Bay was clearly traded for the purpose of acquiring prospects for the future and increasing the depth of the farm system. It is evident based on the quality of prospects received in each deal. And Andy LaRoche is anything but low-upside. In case you don't remember, he was once a top prospect in the game, and he's currently an OBP-machine.

Quote:
And i said that littlefield made it look like he was trying signing some free agents for a lot of money even though they turned out to be terrible.

And looking like you're trying to get better is not the same thing as actually trying to get better. Huntington is doing the latter, and he doesn't give a damn what it looks like to the uneducated casual fan.

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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Last edited by Willton on Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:55 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Quote:
And i said that littlefield made it look like he was trying signing some free agents for a lot of money even though they turned out to be terrible.

And looking like you're trying to get better is not the same thing as actually trying to get better. Huntington is doing the latter, and he doesn't give a damn what it looks like to the uneducated casual fan.


I'm sure Huntington wont care too much you doubted him when the bandwagon rolls into PNC Park paying to see the Pirates...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:57 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
So Here is my question how much longer will you wait for the Pirates to win? Is your limit 20 straight losing seasons? 25,30,50?

As long as it takes. What would you have me do, follow another team?

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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:05 pm 
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Hang in there with us Wilton.

As Nixon said and I repeat--- you can never appreciate the glory of the mountain top unless you've been in the deepest valley.(paraphrase).

He and Pirate fans understand the first part of this saying.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:12 pm 
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You're scarin' me with the Nixon references sub.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:31 pm 
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Some of you apoligists are as bad as the moves the last 17 years.
If you keep cheering on every bad move the team makes they will keep on doing it. The true fans will challenge the organization and question the terrible moves and 17 straight years of losing. While you "uneducated" fans will continue to smile and cheer on your perenial celler dwellers!

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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:32 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
You're scarin' me with the Nixon references sub.

Image
Base stealer Nyjer Morgan proclaims, "I am not a crook."


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:43 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
If you keep cheering on every bad move the team makes they will keep on doing it.

But as others have pointed out, you are not accurate in assessing the transactions. You are remarkably silent on the Nady/Marte trade, for example. Wonder why .... wasn't that also a "salary dump"? Is it POSSIBLE that trading established players for high-end young players will, in the long run, make the team genuinely competitive.

Naaaah, can't be.

Meanwhile, you compared and analogized the Bay deal with the Ramirez trade. Wrong again, chief.

Ramirez was traded with another established player, Kenny Lofton. That miserable deal netted a medium-ceiling middle infield prospect, Bobby Hill, and a mediocre bullpen arm in Matt Brubek and an eminently mediocre and average backup infielder, Jose Hernandez.

None of the players received in exchange was a top-10 prospect in all of MLB, or a top-25 prospect three years running.

None was a power arm starter in the mold of Billingsley.

None was a power reliever clocked in the mid-90's who had already made it to the majors by age 25.

None was a left-handed bat with some pop as a 4th player involved.

The Pirates received a high-OBP starting 3rd baseman who will develop power, a power starter who is probably the second or third best starting pitching prospect in the minors (behind Lincoln and maybe Daniel McCutchen, and in the area of Jeff Locke) for the Pirates right now. They received a guy who was pitching well out of the pen before his arm problem. And a starting OF'er.

The two position players - Laroche and Moss - have already started more games than Hernandez and Hill did, combined, in their careers with the Pirates. Also, Laroche and Moss will be contributing next year, and the next, and the next.

Analogizing the Ramirez trade to the Bay deal is just so off base that it defies common sense.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:47 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Ryann wrote:
If you keep cheering on every bad move the team makes they will keep on doing it.

But as others have pointed out, you are not accurate in assessing the transactions. You are remarkably silent on the Nady/Marte trade, for example. Wonder why .... wasn't that also a "salary dump"? Is it POSSIBLE that trading established players for high-end young players will, in the long run, make the team genuinely competitive.

Naaaah, can't be.

Meanwhile, you compared and analogized the Bay deal with the Ramirez trade. Wrong again, chief.

Ramirez was traded with another established player, Kenny Lofton. That miserable deal netted a medium-ceiling middle infield prospect, Bobby Hill, and a mediocre bullpen arm in Matt Brubek and an eminently mediocre and average backup infielder, Jose Hernandez.

None of the players received in exchange was a top-10 prospect in all of MLB, or a top-25 prospect three years running.

None was a power arm starter in the mold of Billingsley.

None was a power reliever clocked in the mid-90's who had already made it to the majors by age 25.

None was a left-handed bat with some pop as a 4th player involved.

The Pirates received a high-OBP starting 3rd baseman who will develop power, a power starter who is probably the second or third best starting pitching prospect in the minors (behind Lincoln and maybe Daniel McCutchen, and in the area of Jeff Locke) for the Pirates right now. They received a guy who was pitching well out of the pen before his arm problem. And a starting OF'er.

The two position players - Laroche and Moss - have already started more games than Hernandez and Hill did, combined, in their careers with the Pirates. Also, Laroche and Moss will be contributing next year, and the next, and the next.

Analogizing the Ramirez trade to the Bay deal is just so off base that it defies common sense.


Again you LIE!
I am never silent on the Nady/Marte trade because it was an excellent move. One good move doesn't excuse 17 striaght losing seasons or the trades of Jason bay and countless of other starts over the years such as ramirez.

Moss will be contributing nothing in the next years.
For all star jason bay they got. Mediocre average 3rd basemen who will never be more then an average 3rd basemen. A sub par outfielder who brings nothing to the Pirates. An injured terrible relief pitcher. An injured starter who is in A and has already had TJ surgery.

The deals are alike because both were bad.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pirates are a Joke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:49 pm 
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But you said they were both salary dumps. And they weren't. You are flip flopping more than a politician.


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