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 Post subject: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:56 pm 
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Who do you guys think the Bucs should look into shopping?

I am talking about legitimate trade prospects, not just trying to unload guys...someone who might give us a good return, and having someone available to take their place.

My thoughts. I would listen to offers for either Jaramillo or Diaz. It was nice to have them both when Doumit went down, and he will go down again, but if we can get a legitimate propect for one of them, and Doumit is ready to go, I would do it.

I would listen to offers for Nyjer. I like Nyjer, but I don't think he will really ever amount to anything mroe than he is, which should be as a 4th OF. If someone is willing to look at his first half and the positives he has brought to the table, and overpay, then I would take it. Otherwise, his playing time would be cut down, with Young and Moss getting more.

Grabow. He is as good as gone, with Burnett ready to step into his role, and Gorzzy takign Burnetts spot.

I think there is a good chance that Capps might be moved. I think Chavez can step into his spot.

If anyone has a need for a good bench guy, and can give us some decent return, I would think about moving Monroe or Hinske.

And finally, I would trade Jack if the right offer came along. I would give Bixler a shot for the rest of the year, knowing he is the starter, and not looking over his shoulder.

I would not trade Duke, Maholm, or LaRoche unless the offer was very, very good.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:05 pm 
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I think the Pirates should look into trading Adam LaRoche(Need), Nyjer Morgan(Long shot), Matt Capps(Long shot), John Grabow(Need), Paul Maholm(Long shot), Ian Snell(Need), Tyler Yates(Need) but i don't think we will find value for him, Jason Jaramillo(Long shot).

Now for players i think we will look into trading that i don't want to see us trade away. Jack Wilson, Freddy Sanchez, Zach Duke, and Ryan Doumit.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:22 pm 
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I would trade anyone as long as the trade involved MLB ready players and or prospects who would improve this team by making it deeper in talent at most positions.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:21 am 
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I think the Bucs will trade a catcher, most likely Diaz. That is the only position in which they deal from strength. I think they could trade him to Boston for a pitcher. I also think they will trade Burnett. Also I see likely trades or Gorzo, Bixler, and other AAA prospects.

I reallly don't think they should trade Capps, since I see no replacement in the org. I'm 50/50 on Adam because he is not too expensive, wants to be here, and we have no replacement. I also think he has no value and I don't want him to be traded for nothing. I don't see Jack being traded since I think he has no value. Freddy has value but I really like him so I hope they keep him and I think on the heels of Nate they will unless it's a major offer.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:34 am 
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BostonBuc wrote:
I think the Bucs will trade a catcher, most likely Diaz. That is the only position in which they deal from strength. I think they could trade him to Boston for a pitcher. I also think they will trade Burnett. Also I see likely trades or Gorzo, Bixler, and other AAA prospects.

I reallly don't think they should trade Capps, since I see no replacement in the org. I'm 50/50 on Adam because he is not too expensive, wants to be here, and we have no replacement. I also think he has no value and I don't want him to be traded for nothing. I don't see Jack being traded since I think he has no value. Freddy has value but I really like him so I hope they keep him and I think on the heels of Nate they will unless it's a major offer.


You think they trade Burnett instead of Grabow? I see Grabow bringing in a better return, plus Burnett is cheaper. That's why I think they trade Grabow.

I could see Diaz being moved. He could be a decent major league hitter, especially in the AL where he would have an opportunity to DH some.

I think the Bucs think that Chavez could replace Capps. Personally, I don't think closers are hard to come by. I think chavez could probably do the job.

I agree with you about Adam, plus I think his presence here helps Andy...so with all things considered Adam stays.

Not sure about Jack. He has little value, and there is no true replacement, but I still think he is moved in a money saving deal.

I too hope they keep Sanchez.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:44 am 
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I should have said Grabow not Burnett. Oops. I also heard Gammons (FWIW) the other night say that Gorzo will be traded. I think we potentially have some trade bait at triple A that we have not had recently so that's a plus.

To your original post, I'm open to trades for Nyjer but I think it's too early for him to be worth anything and we don't have a replacement ready.

I'm struggling a bit with this issue because I think they could do almost nothing and challenge 500 which would be nice. Finishing over 500 would at least remove the embarrassment stories in the National Press, I also realize it's not the goal. I went to two games last weekend and left feeling good for the first time in years so I'm conflicted.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:53 am 
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BostonBuc wrote:
I should have said Grabow not Burnett. Oops. I also heard Gammons (FWIW) the other night say that Gorzo will be traded. I think we potentially have some trade bait at triple A that we have not had recently so that's a plus.

To your original post, I'm open to trades for Nyjer but I think it's too early for him to be worth anything and we don't have a replacement ready.

I'm struggling a bit with this issue because I think they could do almost nothing and challenge 500 which would be nice. Finishing over 500 would at least remove the embarrassment stories in the National Press, I also realize it's not the goal. I went to two games last weekend and left feeling good for the first time in years so I'm conflicted.


Agree with most of that, although I don't see Gorzo going. I personally think he has more value to us still, than anything we could get on trade.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:06 am 
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Animal wrote:
BostonBuc wrote:
I should have said Grabow not Burnett. Oops. I also heard Gammons (FWIW) the other night say that Gorzo will be traded. I think we potentially have some trade bait at triple A that we have not had recently so that's a plus.

To your original post, I'm open to trades for Nyjer but I think it's too early for him to be worth anything and we don't have a replacement ready.

I'm struggling a bit with this issue because I think they could do almost nothing and challenge 500 which would be nice. Finishing over 500 would at least remove the embarrassment stories in the National Press, I also realize it's not the goal. I went to two games last weekend and left feeling good for the first time in years so I'm conflicted.


Agree with most of that, although I don't see Gorzo going. I personally think he has more value to us still, than anything we could get on trade.


Gorzo will have alot more value if in a year we can have him in the rotation. I don't see him going anywhere this season.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:51 am 
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Freddy would bring the most value of our regulars. I dont want to see him go, but for the right offer, I would like to see him leave. There are teams out there that have a need for second basemen.

I know you dont want to trade within your division, but the Brewers have a need for this year with Weeks going down. Not really so much as long term, cause Weeks has more upside then Freddy.

New York Mets are always looking to add a two bagger. Castillo is about done. Not much of a stick, Freddy would be a hugh improvement at the plate. That offense needs jump started.

I still think Jack will get traded to Boston. He is a valueable piece to a contending team, but not so much for us. I would rather see Bixler play and get a prospect or two for Jack. I am not holding my breath, but Sano would be a good sign for the buc's even though he projects as maybe changing positions.

I believe that either Diaz or JJ is as good as gone when Doumit comes back. They are better then several catchers starting for some ML teams now. If they dont, then a trade is on the horizon for Adam with Doumit moving to first base.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:13 am 
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I still see J.J. Hardy going to Boston. I hope that happens also.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:17 am 
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What possible benefit would it be to trade Gorzo? If he cannot crack our ML staff, what does that mean for his trade value? I think Gorzo needs to get into the rotation again before we can discuss letting him go.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:09 am 
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I'm in agreement that anyone should be traded should be made to make this team better...

I think Adam LaRoche will be traded, that opens up 1st to see what Steve Pearce can do...

Grabow will probably go too...

I think there might be a possibility of Snell getting traded, though I'm not sure if I'd want to trade him bcause of potential...

I dont know about Capps...I dont see us getting much value for him, unless a team would lose it's closer and needs one. other than that, he's a setup man on any other team

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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:27 am 
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I see Adam Laroche going. He is, like clockwork, doing his same song and dance as he is starting to heat up right now again. By the trade deadline his stats will look good enough for maybe two B prospects or so. I am fine with Hinske finishing the year at first if Pearce cannot learn to take a pitch.

I would love to see Morgan hit better and regain some trade value. He is only in his second year of the majors so he has plenty of cheap years left. The Pirates are way too short on power and cannot afford to have him playing left field which is a prime spot for power. His defense is great, sure, but we already have his offensive potential and then some with McCutchen at the topd of the lineup.

Grabow is, as others have said, very likely to go. Maybe 1 B prospect for him at A or AA.

I don't think it makes sense to trade Jack. The pitching staff relies heavily on good defense as Duke and Maholm are ground ball pitchers and Ross O has the heavy sinker. If Jack wants to sign cheaply with the Pirates then I think it might make sense to keep him for 2 more years or so until the SS prospects in the lower minors are closer to the majors.

I like the idea of trading Capps, I have not thought about it before but he could bring back a nice return. However, I am concerned as that might cripple the bullpen. Capps could bring back two B prospects if the team is desperate enough for bullpen help.

I really don't think any team gives up value for a backup catcher as some are suggesting in Diaz and Jaramillo. A long term solution might be keep them both as they both are showing they are very capable and putting Doumit in right field. Cutch in center, Doumit in right, Young / Moss in left (Morgan traded hopefully). That outfield is worse defensively, but much better with power.

I am indifferent towards trading Freddy. He is solid offensively and defensively, but I don't think a team like the Pirates can spend that much on a second baseman. If he goes, he might bring back 1 B+ A- prospect in the lower minors and then maybe a B prospect on top of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:46 am 
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They always say that they are open to trading anyone if the price is right. But I think some decisions need made if they are going to actively shop guys. They are:
1.What do we do at catcher? Move one of the two young guys? Change Doumit"s position? trade Doumit? I don't want to lose any of them but I realize something needs done. They do all seem good enough to play. I guess I trade Diaz because he has more value in the Al as a DH and back-up or a starter, but for value, I also trade JJ if our no.1 pick is really good enough to be fast tracked. Sanchez(c) also comes into play when considering trades for Dooumit who could bring a top shelf major league SP.

2. What to do in the outfield where the number of questions is enormous when you look at the present players and the prospects for outfield positions. I don't like Doumit there, and as stated many times, I think Morgan is not a major league talent (and it's showing now). We need to develop young guys like Moss. And we do seem to have a glut of quality kids in the minors. Keep the best couple and move some if the price is right.

3. Third base is another issue. Andy or Alvarez? And where to play the other? Don't trade either.

So I come down to trading the veterens like Wilson, Grabow, Burnett, Adam LaRoche and maybe Capps. But please not my man Freddy.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Should The Bucs Trade??
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:45 pm 
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Jack could go to Boston, but he would only be used as a late game defensive replacement since he's so bad offensively. The Sox definitely could use his glove, but I don't know if they'd be willing to pay his salary just for innings 8 and 9 in games in which they are ahead. Hardy would be a slightly cheaper defensive upgrade but is having a brutal year at the plate. Of course, the Sox may stand pat...their current SS, Nick Green, has an OPS+ of 98 (which isn't bad for a SS) and isn't terrible with the glove. It's kind of scary that this is the only glaring hole for the Sox right now, and it's not that bad compared to holes that other teams have.

Just to beat a dead horse, I think NH has to ship Freddy. If they let his option trigger, they are gambling on him having similar numbers next year before they trade him away, and that's not a gamble I think they should take.

Obviously the exodus of Freddy and Jack leaves a huge hole up the middle in the future, but at least it will be obvious to NH where his draft focus should be in upcoming years.

As for pitchers, see what teams offer us. I'm willing to bet that someone will overpay for Capps given how overrated closers are. I don't see anyone on the current staff as being indispensable to the future of the team, with the potential exceptions of Duke and Maholm.


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