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 Post subject: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:33 am 
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Nate McLouth .252AVG/10HR/36RBI/.340OBP/.445SLG
Adam LaRoche .260AVG/9HR/31RBI/.356OBP/.484SLG

How good is Nate? Everyone likes to bash Adam for his low production the first half of the season but at the same time consider Nate the savior of the Pirates. If Nate is a superstar and it was a huge mistake to trade him then the same goes for Adam. If Adam sucks the way some people say then so did Nate and we should be celebrating what we got.

I know numbers don't say everything but they do tell a lot. We also know Adam will get hot the second half and we have no idea what Nate will do (last year he cooled off BIG TIME).

That being said, the Bucs are 31-34 in mid June and 5GB. We may not finish with a winning record, and come July we will probably trade more of our players but this year at least for most of the games (win or lose) we are in the games till the end and I have reason to stick around till the end.

Bash the Bucs and FO all you want. But this is year 2 and we are more competitive then we were last year and that is goal isn't it? To get better every year? Does everyone expect to go from 68-94 to 94-68 in 1 year? I think Jason Bay, Nate McLouth, Xavier Nady, and Damaso Marte were good players, Bay was a great player but I'm sorry to say we weren't competitve when they were hear, we sucked. I look at our farm system, our drafts (yes even this years; it is going to take millions of dollars to sign a lot of those HS picks) and I see us getting better year to year from here on out.



Okay, I vented....


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 Post subject: Re: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:36 am 
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Quote:
Nate McLouth .252AVG/10HR/36RBI/.340OBP/.445SLG
Adam LaRoche .260AVG/9HR/31RBI/.356OBP/.484SLG


That's something. I agree with you. Everybody liked Nate but he really wasn't the savior that he was made out to be.


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 Post subject: Re: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:39 am 
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Not that I disagree with the trade, but comparing McLouth to LaRoche as players is not a fair comparison. McLouth plays a much more demanding defensive position than LaRoche does. It is more difficult, and thus more valuable, to find a hitter like McLouth that can play CF than it is to find a hitter like LaRoche that can play 1B.

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 Post subject: Re: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:41 am 
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Willton wrote:
Not that I disagree with the trade, but comparing McLouth to LaRoche as players is not a fair comparison. McLouth plays a much more demanding defensive position than LaRoche does. It is more difficult, and thus more valuable, to find a hitter like McLouth that can play CF than it is to find a hitter like LaRoche that can play 1B.


I also agree with this, it is just Nate wasn't as good as he was made out to be.


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 Post subject: Re: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:47 am 
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Willton wrote:
Not that I disagree with the trade, but comparing McLouth to LaRoche as players is not a fair comparison. McLouth plays a much more demanding defensive position than LaRoche does. It is more difficult, and thus more valuable, to find a hitter like McLouth that can play CF than it is to find a hitter like LaRoche that can play 1B.


I agree with you. The stats just tell the story of production in the lineup. One of the major arguments I heard on this board was that he was the biggest producer on the team, I was just mearly pointing out that he did not produce as much as people believed. That being said, McCutchen is going to out perform Nate in every way. We traded away a .260-.270 hitter (I predicted he will end up by the end of the season) for 3 guys that will be as good or better. On top of that we have a future Superstar playing CF for us for the next 6 years at least that we were able to promote.

Average player (Nate) for 2 probable average players plus 1 probable above average player (Hernandez) and the promotion of a superstar (McCutchen).

GREAT TRADE

Sometimes I think we have Pirate goggles on. What seems great on our team is average on every other team.


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 Post subject: Re: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:47 am 
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You make some good points rellie. Welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:32 am 
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We can go back everytime McLouth is slumping (or when McCutchen is) and try to evaluate the trade a million times in the future, and repeat the pointless cycle. I'm kind of tired of seeing these threads pop up. It's nothing against you, rellimie, and I see you haven't posted much, it just seems that a new one is popping up every week along the vein of "Alright, here's one for you people who wanted to keep McLouth ...". Now one randomly comparing McLouth's numbers with LaRoche's this season? I don't think anyone on this board thinks the trade was a totally bad decision despite how much of a fan favorite McLouth was and how some of us liked him as a player. Agree or disagee, I don't think any of the fans here were totally 100% againstit.


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 Post subject: Re: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:46 am 
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TheShark wrote:
We can go back everytime McLouth is slumping (or when McCutchen is) and try to evaluate the trade a million times in the future, and repeat the pointless cycle. I'm kind of tired of seeing these threads pop up. It's nothing against you, rellimie, and I see you haven't posted much, it just seems that a new one is popping up every week along the vein of "Alright, here's one for you people who wanted to keep McLouth ...". Now one randomly comparing McLouth's numbers with LaRoche's this season? I don't think anyone on this board thinks the trade was a totally bad decision despite how much of a fan favorite McLouth was and how some of us liked him as a player. Agree or disagee, I don't think any of the fans here were totally 100% againstit.


Excellent Points Shark. Even going back to the Bay trade, are we ready to give up on Moss already? What if we had given up on Bay after trading the popular Giles for him? What if we had given up on Giles after trading Rincon for him?

What if we had given up on Bobby Hill, Matt Brubeck, and Jose Hernandez after trading ARam for them? (Okay, how did that one get in there?? lol) But you get the point!

But seriously, trades take a long time to evaluate...not a few months or less.

At least they are trying SOMETHING!

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 Post subject: Re: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:32 am 
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Animal wrote:
What if we had given up on Bobby Hill ...

Cue Bucfan:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:19 am 
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I like Nate McLouth, but I liked the Nate McLouth trade even more.

But, just to play devil's advocate on the OP:

before we jump for joy about being more competitive this year, we had the exact same record after 65 games last year and even hit a high-water mark of 33-34. We were 1 game off that pace in '05 and 31-34 in '02 so it's not unchartered territory this decade. I'm hopeful and pretty confident that they're turning the corner, but this team hasn't proven anything about it's competitiveness yet.


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 Post subject: Re: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:24 am 
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Jack Round Tripper wrote:
I like Nate McLouth, but I liked the Nate McLouth trade even more.

But, just to play devil's advocate on the OP:

before we jump for joy about being more competitive this year, we had the exact same record after 65 games last year and even hit a high-water mark of 33-34. We were 1 game off that pace in '05 and 31-34 in '02 so it's not unchartered territory this decade. I'm hopeful and pretty confident that they're turning the corner, but this team hasn't proven anything about it's competitiveness yet.


I think the big difference between this year and last year is that last year at this time if you said all the players we would trade away( Bay, Nady, Nate, and Marte) and that Doumit would miss most of the first half of the season i would say that we would be in last place, and probably 2nd worst in baseball behind Washington. That is why i see it as a big deal that we have the same record at this point this season as we did last year.


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 Post subject: Re: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:15 am 
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The biggest difference between this year and all the years in recent memory is the starting rotation.


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 Post subject: Re: For those of you that are still PO'd about McLouth
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:58 am 
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Starting pitching wins ball games. Remember the Braves of old. They did it with limited offense and Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine. I really like Morton. I liked him when he came up last season for the Braves. He has the potential to be a good 3rd starter. That would fit it nicely with what we have. I liked this trade also, but I can see where the average fan, who really doesnt follow the Minors and the prospects, can see where this was just a dump.


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