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 Post subject: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:13 pm 
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I get so tired about hearing how bad Freddy's defense is, and that he has no range. I have seen him make a lot of plays in the OF and foul territory that not a lot of 2b would make.

If only he could play SS, we could put Delwyn Young in at 2b.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:32 pm 
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Animal wrote:
If only he could play SS, we could put Delwyn Young in at 2b.

Freddy does not have the arm to play SS. Delwyn Young is not a good second baseman right now.

Putting Sanchez at second and Young at 2nd would turn a current strength of the Pirates (defense) into a huge weakness.

Many have written about the fact that defense is tremendously underrated. Last year's team, for example, with Bautista at 3rd, Bay in LF, McLouth in CF and Nady in RF was horrid defensively. I mean, starting-pitchers-standing-on-the-ledge horrible.

This year, the defense is markedly improved with Laroche at 3rd, Morgan in LF, Moss in RF and now McCutchen in CF.

That is part of the reason that the pitching is "better." The pitching is better because the defense makes outs on balls in play.

I often wondered if the BABIP guys correlated the averages with the defensive rankings of the teams for which the pitchers played. It is reasonable to believe that above-average range factors = lower BABIP = lower ERA's.


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:39 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Animal wrote:
If only he could play SS, we could put Delwyn Young in at 2b.

Freddy does not have the arm to play SS. Delwyn Young is not a good second baseman right now.

Putting Sanchez at second and Young at 2nd would turn a current strength of the Pirates (defense) into a huge weakness.

Many have written about the fact that defense is tremendously underrated. Last year's team, for example, with Bautista at 3rd, Bay in LF, McLouth in CF and Nady in RF was horrid defensively. I mean, starting-pitchers-standing-on-the-ledge horrible.

This year, the defense is markedly improved with Laroche at 3rd, Morgan in LF, Moss in RF and now McCutchen in CF.

That is part of the reason that the pitching is "better." The pitching is better because the defense makes outs on balls in play.

I often wondered if the BABIP guys correlated the averages with the defensive rankings of the teams for which the pitchers played. It is reasonable to believe that above-average range factors = lower BABIP = lower ERA's.


Oh, I agree. I just WISH that Freddy could play SS and DYoung would be better defensively at 2b.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:44 pm 
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Animal wrote:
Oh, I agree. I just WISH that Freddy could play SS and DYoung would be better defensively at 2b.

And I wish that David Littlefield had gotten lost on the way to the Pirates facilities on June 7, 2007. In the emergency arising from Littlefield's confusion, the Pirates call on Bucfan to make their first selection and he submits his choice in the nick of time.

"DANIEL MOSKOS ... is asked to get Bucfan a beer to celebrate the selection of MATT WIETERS!!"


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:50 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
I often wondered if the BABIP guys correlated the averages with the defensive rankings of the teams for which the pitchers played. It is reasonable to believe that above-average range factors = lower BABIP = lower ERA's.

Funny you should mention that. The hallmark of measuring the defense of an entire team is Defensive Efficiency (or "DEF_EFF" for short), which measures the rate that batted balls are turned into outs. It is measured by dividing the number of outs made on balls in play by the number of total balls in play. BABIP, on the other hand, measures the rate that batted balls fall in for hits. Interestingly enough, DEF_EFF = 1 - BABIP.

So yes, team defense does affect the BABIP of pitchers and opposing batters, and in turn affects ERA (or RA, if you think the earned-run rule is stupid, as I do). That said, if a pitcher has a BABIP that deviates significantly from what the team's BABIP is, it suggests that defense is not the only factor and that luck is playing a significant part in that pitcher's performance. See, e.g. Gavin Floyd of the Chicago White Sox.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:58 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Funny you should mention that. The hallmark of measuring the defense of an entire team is Defensive Efficiency (or "DEF_EFF" for short), which measures the rate that batted balls are turned into outs. It is measured by dividing the number of outs made on balls in play by the number of total balls in play. BABIP, on the other hand, measures the rate that batted balls fall in for hits. Interestingly enough, DEF_EFF = 1 - BABIP.

So yes, team defense does affect the BABIP of pitchers and opposing batters, and in turn affects ERA (or RA, if you think the earned-run rule is stupid, as I do). That said, if a pitcher has a BABIP that deviates significantly from what the team's BABIP is, it suggests that defense is not the only factor and that luck is playing a significant part in that pitcher's performance. See, e.g. Gavin Floyd of the Chicago White Sox.

Interesting. Thx for the info. I know a little about sabremetrics, but mainly about hitting. I know far too little about pitching sabremetrics. It sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the subject.


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:47 pm 
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Rocco talked on a post game show a few weeks back about how the most improved aspect of the team this year is the defense, because its allowed the pitchers to relax, and allowed the offense to not have to put up huge numbers to win...

The pitching has improved with the defense, he said the starters this year have less K's per 9 innings than last years team

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:00 pm 
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I don't think you need stats to know we are much better defensively this year. Improved greatly at third, catcher, and all three outfield positions. It does help pitchers to know that they can count on guys to make the play and to be fundamentally sound so that easy runs are not given away.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:01 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
I don't think you need stats to know we are much better defensively this year. Improved greatly at third, catcher, and all three outfield positions. It does help pitchers to know that they can count on guys to make the play and to be fundamentally sound so that easy runs are not given away.

Improved greatly at second as well. Freddy couldn't throw last year, and that had a big effect on his range.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:22 pm 
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Freddy can catch anything thats around him, he lacks range, but is far from being a statue out on the field...

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:32 pm 
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I think he dives too much


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:48 am 
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CNYBucs wrote:
I think he dives too much

Image
Freddy tries to flag down ground ball up the middle


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:09 am 
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I think Freddy makes up for lack of range with good old fashioned hustle. The play he made against the Braves where he pulled his rib cage muscle a little down the right field line is one of many examples. I'll watch guys like Freddy play all day.


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:01 am 
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Jack Round Tripper wrote:
I think Freddy makes up for lack of range with good old fashioned hustle. The play he made against the Braves where he pulled his rib cage muscle a little down the right field line is one of many examples. I'll watch guys like Freddy play all day.


I agree. I don't think there is anything wrong with Freddy's defense, when comparing him to a gold glover he might not look that great, but he gets the job done.


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:31 am 
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Jack Round Tripper wrote:
I think Freddy makes up for lack of range with good old fashioned hustle. The play he made against the Braves where he pulled his rib cage muscle a little down the right field line is one of many examples. I'll watch guys like Freddy play all day.

You can't make up much range by hustling, just has you can't make up much for a lack of speed by hustling.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:29 am 
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Jack Round Tripper wrote:
I think Freddy makes up for lack of range with good old fashioned hustle. The play he made against the Braves where he pulled his rib cage muscle a little down the right field line is one of many examples. I'll watch guys like Freddy play all day.

In other words, Freddy makes it look good, regardless of whether it was a tough play for a good 2B.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:54 am 
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Willton wrote:
Jack Round Tripper wrote:
I think Freddy makes up for lack of range with good old fashioned hustle. The play he made against the Braves where he pulled his rib cage muscle a little down the right field line is one of many examples. I'll watch guys like Freddy play all day.

In other words, Freddy makes it look good, regardless of whether it was a tough play for a good 2B.


Not even close. I'm saying Freddy makes plays that other 2B don't make due to hustle. You wouldn't catch Brandon Phillips (the reigning gold-glover, I believe), busting his tail down the line to make the play I mentioned. Most guys just let the right fielder get it and concede a double.


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:12 am 
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Jack Round Tripper wrote:
Willton wrote:
Jack Round Tripper wrote:
I think Freddy makes up for lack of range with good old fashioned hustle. The play he made against the Braves where he pulled his rib cage muscle a little down the right field line is one of many examples. I'll watch guys like Freddy play all day.

In other words, Freddy makes it look good, regardless of whether it was a tough play for a good 2B.


Not even close. I'm saying Freddy makes plays that other 2B don't make due to hustle. You wouldn't catch Brandon Phillips (the reigning gold-glover, I believe), busting his tail down the line to make the play I mentioned. Most guys just let the right fielder get it and concede a double.

And how often does that play happen, just out of curiosity? Once a season? Twice?

By the way, you say that Freddy pulled a muscle making that play. Hmm, doesn't that make him less effective for the rest of the game? Sounds like this "hustle" is a very dangerous thing to have.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:13 am 
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Sometimes I just don't understand (my wife would say 'most times'). What is the reason for your suggestion that hustling as a ball player is a bad thing?

Jack and Freddy both display great hustle and if you choose to not like it, I ask why?

Are yo ua better player if you don't?

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THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy's Defense...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:41 am 
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