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 Post subject: Why is everyone ragging on the Pirates?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:41 am 
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For the media it should be about that time when they can start dissing the Pirates and talking about how bad they are and how bad the management is and blah, blah, blah... They obviously haven't actually been paying attention. Here are some stats for you...

9 - There are nine teams with worse records than us

15 - teams that are under .500

4 - Number of games back from 1st place that the Pirates are

-1 - All-Star/Gold Glove CFer, but that hasn't really affected us much...

The Pirates are 30-33 and while I am sure that we aren't going to win the division and will probably finish under .500, I don't undersand why we are still being ridiculed in the national media. Someone needs to alert them to the Washington Senators.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is everyone ragging on the Pirates?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:31 am 
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Yes, there is some improvement this season. The reason is that our pitching is showing some signs of consistancy for the first time in many years. Maholm, Duke, Ohlendorf, and even Snell (last two starts) are becoming the kind of throwers a team can count on to keep them in games. If Morton or Karsers becomes a decent five guy, who knows.

A reminder that we were 30-30 a few years ago when the roof feel in. It was the beginning of inter-league play that year and it simply killed us. We've started better against the American league this year and while we have Minn. next, remember we have the last two placed teams in that division yet to play. Maybe....

Most encouraging to me is that there is real hope for the future with the kind of kids we are beginning to stock in the minors. They will not all work out but the more you have the better the odds of some real help coming from the farm system.

BTW, has anyone noticed how well some of the Bay/Nady guys are working out? And some of them are very young like Morris and still developing in the minors.

We're not near there yet but we are clearly moving in the right direction.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is everyone ragging on the Pirates?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
A reminder that we were 30-30 a few years ago when the roof feel in. It was the beginning of inter-league play that year and it simply killed us. We've started better against the American league this year and while we have Minn. next, remember we have the last two placed teams in that division yet to play. Maybe....


Be wary of "lower tier" teams in the AL Central. I see the AL Central as being very similar to the NL Central. I'm not looking at easy wins from either the Royals or the Indians. And, yes, the Bucs will be facing Greinke.

Hopefully, the Rockies will cool off big time by Fri-Sun.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is everyone ragging on the Pirates?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:31 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
A reminder that we were 30-30 a few years ago when the roof feel in.

True enough. Huge, huge, HUGE differences between the two seasons when comparing the team June 11, 2005 (when the Pirates beat the then-Devil Rays to raise their record to 31-31) and now:

  • The starting staff in 2005 consisted of Dave Williams, Mark Redman, Josh Fogg, Kip Wells and Oliver Perez.
  • Of that group, only Dave Williams and Oliver Perez were under 28.
  • This year's starting staff, including Morton, has nobody over age 27 and just one (Snell) who is that old.
  • The 2005 team pitching staff had an average age of 28.
  • The 2009 team has pitchers with an average age of 26.
  • The current "top 8" pitchers on the team (Maholm, Snell, Duke, Ohlendorf, Morton, Capps, Chavez, Meek, and Grabow) have just one pitcher over the age of 26 (Grabow).
  • The 2005 team had two young starters in the wings (Snell and Duke), but nothing else near major league talent on the horizon.
  • The 2009 team has Tom Gorzellany in the minors, along with Daniel McCutchen and Brad Lincoln. Those are better candidates in the minors than were available in 2005, particularly considering that Snell and Duke were already on the club by September of 2005.
  • The 2005 team was counting on Brad Eldred and Craig Wilson to contribute the following season.
  • The 2005 team had two young position players - Doumit and McLouth.
  • The 2009 team has four young position players - McCutchen, Laroche, Young and Moss.
  • The 2005 team had a decrepit bullpen including Jose Mesa, Salomon Torres, Rick White, and Brian Meadows. John Grabow was the only decent young reliever on the team.
  • The 2009 team has Chavez, Hansen, Capps at 25 years old, and Meek at 26.
  • Due to the age of the key pitchers on the 2005 team and the lack of pitching in the system, the team was due to regress during the season and in the following years. It did just that.
  • The 2005 front office felt that a few "additional pieces" (like Jeremy Burnitz and Joe Randa) were all that were needed to make the club win 82 games - the apparent goal of the front office at the time.
  • The 2009 front office does not give a shit about winning 82 games and is gathering talent to win 90+ games and compete for a championship.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is everyone ragging on the Pirates?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
, I don't undersand why we are still being ridiculed in the national media.


What do you expect? There is a lot of national sports media attention on our city right now. You have the other two teams in the city bringing home championships in the same year, and you have the Pirates who are in the midst of a 17 year losing streak. Compared to the Steelers and the Penguins, I'd say the Pirates are worthy targets of ridicule.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is everyone ragging on the Pirates?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:21 pm 
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omgardd wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
, I don't undersand why we are still being ridiculed in the national media.


What do you expect? There is a lot of national sports media attention on our city right now. You have the other two teams in the city bringing home championships in the same year, and you have the Pirates who are in the midst of a 17 year losing streak. Compared to the Steelers and the Penguins, I'd say the Pirates are worthy targets of ridicule.

I think it is more than fair to rag on the Pirates for their history of losing. A team does not lose for 17 straight seasons without at least one person in the organization making some really bad decisions.

That said, I do not think it is fair to compare the organization as it is currently constructed with the way the organization was run in years prior. There are clear differences between the way the Pirates organization was run from 1993-2007 and the way the current regime has run the Pirates organization.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is everyone ragging on the Pirates?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:37 pm 
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Actually, from 1993 to 1997, they were doing it right.

Stripped the club down to the bare minimum. Traded for quantity (Toronto - Wilson deal -9 players), quality (Schmidt, Wright), and power arms (Granger, Jason Johnson, et. al.)

Then 1997, and Camiroonies either panicked, or the Young Prince thought they could win, and started the vicious cycle we all hated.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Why is everyone ragging on the Pirates?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:04 pm 
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As fans, we have to let the past go and move on lest we wallow in self pity and negativism. If we obsess with the past in any aspect of life nothing positive will result. Jeez, we are 4 games out of first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is everyone ragging on the Pirates?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:30 pm 
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Now isn't this thread more like it. Most here seem to be saying the same thing. And most of it is positive stuff.

Fear not those poor souls who are the beat up the pirate crowd will be here soon enough. For sure after we lose a few.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Why is everyone ragging on the Pirates?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:14 pm 
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Heck I am a Bills fan too. If I dwelled on losing I'd be in the freaking nuthouse. The Bills specialize in finding new and more interesting ways to lose on a regular basis.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is everyone ragging on the Pirates?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:43 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
For the media it should be about that time when they can start dissing the Pirates and talking about how bad they are and how bad the management is and blah, blah, blah... They obviously haven't actually been paying attention. Here are some stats for you...

9 - There are nine teams with worse records than us

15 - teams that are under .500

4 - Number of games back from 1st place that the Pirates are

-1 - All-Star/Gold Glove CFer, but that hasn't really affected us much...

The Pirates are 30-33 and while I am sure that we aren't going to win the division and will probably finish under .500, I don't undersand why we are still being ridiculed in the national media. Someone needs to alert them to the Washington Senators.



LOL


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