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 Post subject: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:47 pm 
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The Pirates have taken a lot of flack for trading their "best player", Nate McLouth, for prospects. It got me thinking about best players on teams and I have a couple of questions:

    Do you agree that McLouth was the Pirates' best player?

    Was McLouth the worst best player on any team in the majors?

    If not, which teams have worse best players and which team has the worst best player?

    Who is the Pirates' best player now?

    Is he the worst best?


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:49 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:52 pm 
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After only a couple of beers, I have no clue what he means?

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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:14 pm 
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Aw come on guys, work with me here. Every team has a best player right? If you take all the best players from all of the teams and put them into a pool some of them, maybe, are not as good as McLouth, those are "worse best players". The one in the pool of best players who is the worst player is the "worst best player". What's so hard about that? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:46 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:

[list]Do you agree that McLouth was the Pirates' best player?



Yes. Last season (of course not counting Bay and Nady after they left), McLouth led the team in hits, runs, doubles (led the NL), triples, HRs, RBIs, SBs, and BBs. All while batting lead-off. Sure is average was down this year, but that is to be anticipated after dropping him down to the 3-spot, but he was making up with it by showing more power early.

Quote:
Was McLouth the worst best player on any team in the majors?


Maybe. But that should never be used as an insult to McLouth. He produced what he did in his first full season of starting.

Quote:
Who is the Pirates' best player now?


Based on the full season's performance this year, I would have to go with Sanchez.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:52 pm 
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I'd have to say their best player is Andy LaRoche right now...

Worst best player I'd say is Russ Branyan of Seattle...

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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:08 pm 
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I agree with the Shark, Nate was our best player, now it is Sanchez. He may be the "worst best" but I don't know. Most teams would have at least one power hitter who would be more valuable.

Our team is remarkably incapable of hitting home runs. And we still have to trade Adam.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:12 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
Maybe. But that should never be used as an insult to McLouth. He produced what he did in his first full season of starting.

No insult intended to McLouth. I have the utmost respect for him. He gave his all every day and made (is making) the most of his talent.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:33 pm 
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This is a great question. I'm just trying to think of the other bad teams and who their best players are.

Astros have Lance Berkman.
Royals have Zack Greinke (pitcher, but I don't think there's any argument who's better, at least this year).
Indians have Victor Martinez (this one's close, but he has a career OPS+ of 121 compared to 110 for Nate).
Nats have...wait for it...ADAM DUNN (and Ryan Zimmerman).
Oakland has Matt Holliday (who started slow but is on fire lately, his OPS+ is up to 123).
D-Backs have Danny Haren.
Rockies have Brad Hawpe and Todd Helton.

The only team that I would say is an argument is the Orioles. They have Adam Jones, who is way better than Nate this year, but his previous years aren't very good. They also have Luke Scott, who is a great hitter but is a DH.

If we're just talking position players, then the Royals and D-backs are back in play. Justin Upton is having a better year than Nate for the D-backs, but you might be able to say that Nate has had a slightly better career (which is a little disingenuous since Upton is so young).

However, the Royals have nobody that can hit. So if we're talking just position players (no pitchers), then the Pirates' best player was better than the Royals.

Am I missing anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:06 pm 
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I think the best way to do this is to copy it and answer the questions.

Do you agree that McLouth was the Pirates' best player? At the time yes but he wouldn't have stayed that for long. He didn't mean as much to the team as a player like Jack Wilson.

Was McLouth the worst best player on any team in the majors? Close but i have to say no.

If not, which teams have worse best players and which team has the worst best player? Oakland with Matt Holliday is much worse.

Who is the Pirates' best player now? I think it is Cutch, but he doesn't mean as much to the team as Jack. It comes down to best player against most valuable player. That has been an arguement for years.

Is he the worst best? I don't understand this one. I think you are asking if my pick for our current best player on the Pirates is now the worst best player in baseball, and i have to say no, it is still Holliday. Cutch is going up which Holliday is not doing anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:22 am 
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nad69dan wrote:
I'd have to say their best player is Andy LaRoche right now...

Worst best player I'd say is Russ Branyan of Seattle...


You'd really say Branyan is better than the right fielder with a .356 average, a string of gold gloves, and the all-time single season hits record?


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:31 pm 
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Jack Round Tripper wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
I'd have to say their best player is Andy LaRoche right now...

Worst best player I'd say is Russ Branyan of Seattle...


You'd really say Branyan is better than the right fielder with a .356 average, a string of gold gloves, and the all-time single season hits record?

Right now, yes. The two players' hitting numbers this season are incomparable: Branyan has been hitting the snot out of the ball. What Ichiro has done in the past should have no bearing on the question of who is currently their best player.

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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:16 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Jack Round Tripper wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
I'd have to say their best player is Andy LaRoche right now...

Worst best player I'd say is Russ Branyan of Seattle...


You'd really say Branyan is better than the right fielder with a .356 average, a string of gold gloves, and the all-time single season hits record?

Right now, yes. The two players' hitting numbers this season are incomparable: Branyan has been hitting the snot out of the ball. What Ichiro has done in the past should have no bearing on the question of who is currently their best player.


I disagree. I think a determination of a team's best player should combine their recent career numbers as well as how they are doing now. Otherwise, you're relying on a numbers from a third of a season.

My litmus test for this is who I would take in an expansion draft today if no players were protected, and I would take Ichiro over Russell Branyan.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:59 pm 
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Branyan is their best player this season...he's hitting .319, 15 HR's, .628 slug %, .419 onbase % and only 57 strikeouts

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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:27 pm 
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Gosh only 57 strike outs. LOL. I am laughing a lot today.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:12 pm 
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Did we forget San Francisco? Is this just position players? If so I guess pablo sandoval or Bengie Molina are the worst best. But if pitchers are involved there is a certain pitcher.

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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:16 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Gosh only 57 strike outs. LOL. I am laughing a lot today.


Compared to his career numbers 57 K's isnt bad...

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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:38 pm 
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True. I love to watch Pablo Sandoval play.


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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:55 pm 
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jaybee24 wrote:
The only team that I would say is an argument is the Orioles. They have Adam Jones, who is way better than Nate this year, but his previous years aren't very good. They also have Luke Scott, who is a great hitter but is a DH.


Adam Jones is also a full five years younger than Nate with a much, much higher ceiling. And this is really his first full season. He missed a big chunk of '08 with a broken foot, suffered just as his bat was starting to come around.

I'd also put Nick Markakis and Brian Roberts both well above Nate. In fact, I'd put Markakis above Jones.

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 Post subject: Re: Worst Best Players
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:59 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
jaybee24 wrote:
The only team that I would say is an argument is the Orioles. They have Adam Jones, who is way better than Nate this year, but his previous years aren't very good. They also have Luke Scott, who is a great hitter but is a DH.


Adam Jones is also a full five years younger than Nate with a much, much higher ceiling. And this is really his first full season. He missed a big chunk of '08 with a broken foot, suffered just as his bat was starting to come around.

I'd also put Nick Markakis and Brian Roberts both well above Nate. In fact, I'd put Markakis above Jones.


Yes, somehow I forgot about Markakis...he is definitely better than Nate. I wouldn't say it's as clear with Roberts...the two have similar offensive numbers, but Roberts probably gets the slight edge for putting those numbers up at 2B instead of OF.

If we're going by my expansion draft test, then Jones is the better player for sure, as I'd take him over Nate in a second if I were starting a team from scratch. Not looking at age or ceiling, and simply comparing performance, Nate has been better to this year but appears to have been surpassed.


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