Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:42 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:12 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 11:28 pm
Posts: 2170
I heard the the Pirates had Sanchez 3rd on their board behind Strasburg and Ackeley. So therefore if a stud talent like Tate would have been available they would have passed on him to pick Sanchez! :roll:

_________________
0 straight losing seasons


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:32 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:43 pm
Posts: 273
You know, I never really bought into this idea that the ownership/management were more into saving money than putting a decent club on the field. I had thought that the busts in the drafts and bad trades were just a result of poor baseball moves by people who simply did not know the game as a guy as Joe L. Brown did.

However, this, on top of the recent McLouth fiasco, has sort of caused me to reconsider my opinion. A good baseball move would have been to move McLouth to right, keep him, and bring up McCutcheon for center. With Morgan, McCutch and McLouth you would have had an impressive outfield indeed, and possibly even had a decent year.

But, I am beginning to believe that the McLouth deal was indeed a salary dump, and this draft seems to also fit the mold. It just keeps happening and happening and happening.

I am sure this kid is a great ball player, I am sure they all are. But, the majors are full of great players that never quite seem to make it. The ones that do are not here long.....I am sort of believing that McCutcheon will not be a Pirate for too many years. If he's as good as he appears to be he will be in a bigger market, getting paid more money in the not too distant future.

I am beginning to have some of that Sad Realization, myself. I just don't know anymore.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:30 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:41 pm
Posts: 50
Steve1118 wrote:
However, this, on top of the recent McLouth fiasco, has sort of caused me to reconsider my opinion. A good baseball move would have been to move McLouth to right, keep him, and bring up McCutcheon for center. With Morgan, McCutch and McLouth you would have had an impressive outfield indeed, and possibly even had a decent year.


I am going to wait this out before I declare it to be a fiasco. McLouth had a really good first half last year (2008), got to the All Star game, but since then I think he has batted in the .260 range. It is possible that he had his career year last year. And, he's a good citizen, works hard, and I think we can agree that he's a better than average centerfielder. Not a bad player to have. A player to build around? Who knows?

It does look like Huntington has decided that this is the time to trade him at his peak value. Huntington gets paid the big bucks to make those decisions, and I hope he's right. I also hope he's right on at least two of the prospects he got, and we'll start finding out tonight.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:38 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:41 pm
Posts: 843
Nate was making $2.5 mil this season, and I don't know how much he was set to make through the end of his new contract, but I remember the numbers were not eye-popping. There is no way that trade was a salary dump.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 6214
Location: Keystone State
Ryann wrote:
I heard the the Pirates had Sanchez 3rd on their board behind Strasburg and Ackeley. So therefore if a stud talent like Tate would have been available they would have passed on him to pick Sanchez! :roll:


Did you ever think they might be right?

_________________
The Bucs are going all the way, all the way this year!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
Damn you guys!!!! The gloom and doom is really sapping the life out of me. Can you guys just give it a rest, we get it, you don't like the trade nor the 1st round pick, get over it already.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:54 pm
Posts: 6214
Location: Keystone State
Steve1118 wrote:
But, I am beginning to believe that the McLouth deal was indeed a salary dump, and this draft seems to also fit the mold. It just keeps happening and happening and happening.


:o

_________________
The Bucs are going all the way, all the way this year!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:48 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 11:28 pm
Posts: 2170
Piratefan13 wrote:
Damn you guys!!!! The gloom and doom is really sapping the life out of me. Can you guys just give it a rest, we get it, you don't like the trade nor the 1st round pick, get over it already.


We need to focus on it there is nothing else for the fans of this organization to focus on.

_________________
0 straight losing seasons


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
Focus on this...

Quote:
Allow me to provide a theory...

What I have noticed, is the Pirates FO is building this team surrounding AA. What I mean by that is this, most of our top prospects are located in A and AA with a few sprinkled in at AAA and some still further down. What I believe this implies is that the "core" of the team is not at the ML level as we all suspect, but in the conglomeration of talent being built in and around AA. Let's take a look...

Catcher - There wasn't a prospect at this position anywhere in the minors and the drafting of Sanchez addresses this need immediately. Many of the XBox age fans are under the assumption that every cather provides 30hr 100rbi and stellar defense. Whereas the truth is, a steller defensive catcher that doesn't embarrass the team at the plate is more the norm.

First Base - The Pirates have plenty of options at this position from Matt Hague, to Jarek Cunningham(who is currently a thirdbaseman), to ultimately Pedro Alvarez if Andy LaRoche continues to develop.

2nd Base - This spot is possibly ticketed to one of 2 possibilities, Shelby Ford, or Jim Negrych.

3rd Base - The Pirates went from being anemic at this spot to loaded throughout the organization. Andy Laroche tops the list currently, but Neil Walker, Pedro Gonzalez, and further down Jeremy Farrell all can be considered.

Short Stop - Brian Bixler had his opportunity and I believe has lost it, leaving the position to be battled out by Brian Friday, Chase D'Arnaud, and Jordy Mercer.

Outfield - Now with A. McCutchen playing everyday in Pittsburgh, the 2 remaining outfield spots are possibly ticketed to Jose Tabata and Gorkys Hernandez. Robby Grossman and the newly drafted Evan Chambers may provide insurance.

Starting Pitching - Brad Lincoln and Bryan Morris are leading this category with Jeffrey Locke a consideration. Don't forget Justin Wilson who could be in the mix.

Relief Pitching - Jeff Sues and Michael Dubee are contendors but primarily reliever come from many different situations. Don't write of Danny Moskos yet either, he is still young and a lefty, he could still develop late and become a quality reliever or maybe even starter.

In summary, I believe that the organization has improved markedly since the departure of Littlefield and still has room to grow. If you will notice, NH has competition at every position in the organization, the more talent he aquires, the more competition, and the more production we will reap from our prospects.

Some fans can lose their head over a single draft choice like Sanchez and be completely missing the larger picture. I choose to inspect the depth of the organization and see that it has a much brighter look than just 2 years ago.

PF13


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10727
Well analyzed, PF13. My criticism of the Sanchez pick is that top-flight, blue chip players were available at 4 (Crow, Matsuzek) and the Buccos passed on them.

If the Buccos take a blue-chip prospect like Crow and he flames out, well, damn it. But the thought process was correct. That is because taking a grade-A talent and hoping he meets his ceiling is far preferable to taking a decent talent and hoping he far surpasses expecations.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:08 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 11:28 pm
Posts: 2170
Piratefan13 wrote:
Focus on this...

Quote:
Allow me to provide a theory...

What I have noticed, is the Pirates FO is building this team surrounding AA. What I mean by that is this, most of our top prospects are located in A and AA with a few sprinkled in at AAA and some still further down. What I believe this implies is that the "core" of the team is not at the ML level as we all suspect, but in the conglomeration of talent being built in and around AA. Let's take a look...

Catcher - There wasn't a prospect at this position anywhere in the minors and the drafting of Sanchez addresses this need immediately. Many of the XBox age fans are under the assumption that every cather provides 30hr 100rbi and stellar defense. Whereas the truth is, a steller defensive catcher that doesn't embarrass the team at the plate is more the norm.

First Base - The Pirates have plenty of options at this position from Matt Hague, to Jarek Cunningham(who is currently a thirdbaseman), to ultimately Pedro Alvarez if Andy LaRoche continues to develop.

2nd Base - This spot is possibly ticketed to one of 2 possibilities, Shelby Ford, or Jim Negrych.

3rd Base - The Pirates went from being anemic at this spot to loaded throughout the organization. Andy Laroche tops the list currently, but Neil Walker, Pedro Gonzalez, and further down Jeremy Farrell all can be considered.

Short Stop - Brian Bixler had his opportunity and I believe has lost it, leaving the position to be battled out by Brian Friday, Chase D'Arnaud, and Jordy Mercer.

Outfield - Now with A. McCutchen playing everyday in Pittsburgh, the 2 remaining outfield spots are possibly ticketed to Jose Tabata and Gorkys Hernandez. Robby Grossman and the newly drafted Evan Chambers may provide insurance.

Starting Pitching - Brad Lincoln and Bryan Morris are leading this category with Jeffrey Locke a consideration. Don't forget Justin Wilson who could be in the mix.

Relief Pitching - Jeff Sues and Michael Dubee are contendors but primarily reliever come from many different situations. Don't write of Danny Moskos yet either, he is still young and a lefty, he could still develop late and become a quality reliever or maybe even starter.

In summary, I believe that the organization has improved markedly since the departure of Littlefield and still has room to grow. If you will notice, NH has competition at every position in the organization, the more talent he aquires, the more competition, and the more production we will reap from our prospects.

Some fans can lose their head over a single draft choice like Sanchez and be completely missing the larger picture. I choose to inspect the depth of the organization and see that it has a much brighter look than just 2 years ago.

PF13



You are laughable! Trying to justify such a joke of a pick. We have Ryan Doumit well the Pirates will probably trade him now anyway. And then you will use some sorry ass excuse that he is always hurt.
Has management brain-washed you into agreeing with every move they make?

_________________
0 straight losing seasons


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:26 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:48 pm
Posts: 569
Location: Springfield, IL
Ryann, championship teams have depth..not just in the big club, but in the farm system as well. NH knows that the Pirates will never be able to outspend anyone because Pittsburgh is a small market club. So, he is building a championship club from within.

He is taking the blueprint from Cleveland in the early 90's and adding to it by getting some high ceiling arms, something John Hart didn't do, which cost the Tribe two world series titles.

As for the first round pick being a joke, I strongly disagree. The Pirates got a gold-glove caliber catcher, who scouts believe will hit .250-.260 with 15-20 homers a year. They won't be spending nearly as much on Sanchez, saving some money that will be spent on draft picks the Bucs are currently using to spend on high ceiling high school kids who have scared off other teams.

Not to mention the fact that they are about to sign the sixteen year old kid from the Dominican..


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Sad Realization.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:16 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 11:28 pm
Posts: 2170
curveradio wrote:
Ryann, championship teams have depth..not just in the big club, but in the farm system as well. NH knows that the Pirates will never be able to outspend anyone because Pittsburgh is a small market club. So, he is building a championship club from within.

He is taking the blueprint from Cleveland in the early 90's and adding to it by getting some high ceiling arms, something John Hart didn't do, which cost the Tribe two world series titles.

As for the first round pick being a joke, I strongly disagree. The Pirates got a gold-glove caliber catcher, who scouts believe will hit .250-.260 with 15-20 homers a year. They won't be spending nearly as much on Sanchez, saving some money that will be spent on draft picks the Bucs are currently using to spend on high ceiling high school kids who have scared off other teams.

Not to mention the fact that they are about to sign the sixteen year old kid from the Dominican..


250-260? Ha and I doubt he will hit 15-20 per year. They better sign the 16 year old...and wait how do we know down the road that this kid will turn out to be like 23 and lied about his age?.

_________________
0 straight losing seasons


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], J_C_Steel and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits