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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:50 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Wilton you are a joke! Your not a Pirate fan at all because you dont care about the success of the team.

Sigh. This is just sad. There's a lot that you can say that I disagree with and I'll still defend your right to say it. But questioning a fellow board member's fanhood? IMHO, that really is beyond the pale.


A person who is roots for a winning season in 2011 isn't a fan. A real fan doesn't give up on his team in 2009 or 2010.

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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:52 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Wilton you are a joke! Your not a Pirate fan at all because you dont care about the success of the team.

Sigh. This is just sad. There's a lot that you can say that I disagree with and I'll still defend your right to say it. But questioning a fellow board member's fanhood? IMHO, that really is beyond the pale.


A person who is roots for a winning season in 2011 isn't a fan. A real fan doesn't give up on his team in 2009 or 2010.


Its not giving up hope, we all hope the Pirates win in 2009, but we realize that its far from happening with this current group of players...Nate McLouth included

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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:32 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Wilton you are a joke! Your not a Pirate fan at all because you dont care about the success of the team.

Sigh. This is just sad. There's a lot that you can say that I disagree with and I'll still defend your right to say it. But questioning a fellow board member's fanhood? IMHO, that really is beyond the pale.


A person who is roots for a winning season in 2011 isn't a fan. A real fan doesn't give up on his team in 2009 or 2010.

A real fan does not suggest doing things that would hurt the team in the long run, like holding on to Jason Bay until he leaves in free agency and getting Casey Blake as one's starting third baseman. A real fan should view a championship as the goal, not reaching .500. And an intelligent fan realizes that in real life, sometimes it's best to take a hit in the short term in order to be better in the long term.

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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:04 pm 
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A real fan doesn't support the idea of trading the teams star player to save money, and get a very weak return.
A real fan supports his team every year and the goal of that fan is to see the team succed. Which should be a championship contention. Wilton you are not a fan well wait let me rephrase that you are a Bob Nutting and Neil Huntington fan but NOT a Pittsburgh Pirates fan.

Pirates would have been contenders this season with.
LF Bay
CF McCutchen
RF McLouth
1b Laroche
2b Sanchez
3b Blake
ss Wilson
C Doumit
Then a very good starting pitching staff, and maybe an addition of a better reliever or 2.
We had bay for another 1.5 years and we gave him away for little return.

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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:24 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
A real fan doesn't support the idea of trading the teams star player to save money, and get a very weak return.
A real fan supports his team every year and the goal of that fan is to see the team succed. Which should be a championship contention. Wilton you are not a fan well wait let me rephrase that you are a Bob Nutting and Neil Huntington fan but NOT a Pittsburgh Pirates fan.

Pirates would have been contenders this season with.
LF Bay
CF McCutchen
RF McLouth
1b Laroche
2b Sanchez
3b Blake
ss Wilson
C Doumit
Then a very good starting pitching staff, and maybe an addition of a better reliever or 2.
We had bay for another 1.5 years and we gave him away for little return.


You just dont get it, but thats ok, we understand...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:33 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Ryann wrote:
A real fan doesn't support the idea of trading the teams star player to save money, and get a very weak return.
A real fan supports his team every year and the goal of that fan is to see the team succed. Which should be a championship contention. Wilton you are not a fan well wait let me rephrase that you are a Bob Nutting and Neil Huntington fan but NOT a Pittsburgh Pirates fan.

Pirates would have been contenders this season with.
LF Bay
CF McCutchen
RF McLouth
1b Laroche
2b Sanchez
3b Blake
ss Wilson
C Doumit
Then a very good starting pitching staff, and maybe an addition of a better reliever or 2.
We had bay for another 1.5 years and we gave him away for little return.


You just dont get it, but thats ok, we understand...


You don't understand that the organization you support and act like they do nothing wrong has had 17 straight losing seasons! I like some moves Neil Huntington has made, but others should have the fan base outraged (Like trading Jason Bay and drafting Tony Sanchez 4th overall) and fools like you continue to appluad Neil like anything he touches turns into pure gold. The organization is the laughingstock of proffessional sports.
Of course you have no problem with sitting and waiting for...
2011
:roll:
Just like you sat and waited for...
1997
:roll:
2001
:roll:
2004
:roll:
2007
:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:36 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
A real fan doesn't support the idea of trading the teams star player to save money, and get a very weak return.

You're right, they don't. Feel free to find anything I've written that would imply such an endorsement.

Quote:
A real fan supports his team every year and the goal of that fan is to see the team succed. Which should be a championship contention. Wilton you are not a fan well wait let me rephrase that you are a Bob Nutting and Neil Huntington fan but NOT a Pittsburgh Pirates fan.

I absolutely want to see the team succeed, if that definition of succeeding is winning a championship. Which is why I support any move that has that goal in mind, including the trading of Jason Bay and Nate McLouth.

And you know what? Go fuck yourself. I've been a fan of the Pirates for longer than you've been alive, and I'm still in my 20's. Just because I'm not an idiot fan like you does not make me less of a fan.

I saw what a championship caliber Pirate team looked like: it was in 1992. There is no way the Pirates will be able to get enough talent to become a team like the 1992 squad without getting more prospects, and that requires giving up something in return. Teams don't become contenders with average ballplayers leading the way.

Quote:
Pirates would have been contenders this season with.
LF Bay
CF McCutchen
RF McLouth
1b Laroche
2b Sanchez
3b Blake
ss Wilson
C Doumit
Then a very good starting pitching staff, and maybe an addition of a better reliever or 2.
We had bay for another 1.5 years and we gave him away for little return.

Bullshit. Our outfield defense would be considerably worse, making the pitching staff look considerably worse. And in case you didn't notice, our pitching staff is still bad, even with the improved outfield defense. How is it supposed to be "very good" when it's not even very good with one of the best defenses in the majors?

You're living in a dreamworld if you think that the Pirates could have contended this year with Bay and Blake.

Oh, and by the way, Andy LaRoche is a damn fine 3B. He rates as 6th among NL 3Bs in VORP, and 12th among all major league 3Bs. Further, LaRoche has been worth 2.1 wins above replacement while Bay has been worth 3.3 wins above replacement. That difference is not significant enough to say that having Bay over LaRoche would have put us in the playoffs. So don't give me this nonsense that "we gave [Bay] away from little return." Bay for LaRoche is a fine trade by itself; the fact that we got additional pieces, including a very good pitching prospect in Morris, speaks well of what we got in return.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Last edited by Willton on Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:41 pm 
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You forgot Wilton, we would have moved Bautista to 2nd base and Freddy to SS...that would have made the team better?

I still wish we had Rob Mackowiak starting at third, he can hit HR's

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:48 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
Ryann wrote:
A real fan doesn't support the idea of trading the teams star player to save money, and get a very weak return.
A real fan supports his team every year and the goal of that fan is to see the team succed. Which should be a championship contention. Wilton you are not a fan well wait let me rephrase that you are a Bob Nutting and Neil Huntington fan but NOT a Pittsburgh Pirates fan.

Pirates would have been contenders this season with.
LF Bay
CF McCutchen
RF McLouth
1b Laroche
2b Sanchez
3b Blake
ss Wilson
C Doumit
Then a very good starting pitching staff, and maybe an addition of a better reliever or 2.
We had bay for another 1.5 years and we gave him away for little return.


You just dont get it, but thats ok, we understand...


You don't understand that the organization you support and act like they do nothing wrong has had 17 straight losing seasons! I like some moves Neil Huntington has made, but others should have the fan base outraged (Like trading Jason Bay and drafting Tony Sanchez 4th overall) and fools like you continue to appluad Neil like anything he touches turns into pure gold. The organization is the laughingstock of proffessional sports.
Of course you have no problem with sitting and waiting for...
2011
:roll:
Just like you sat and waited for...
1997
:roll:
2001
:roll:
2004
:roll:
2007
:roll:


You werent here when I was in agreement with the walkout that was staged, the draft of Moskos, the trade of Craig Wilson for Shawn Chacon (the Yankees were in the process of releasing him), and the Matt Morris trade...Far from a Nutting fan, I didnt like the moves that were being made, and neither did many here...

But this organization has changed...They forced McClatchy out, Tracy was fired, Littlefield was fired, Nutting personally went to Latin America and saw the waste of a dump their facility was and built a new one, Huntington and Coonley were hired with a plan on building a championship organization...

Do you think someone with a job with the MLB front offices would leave if he thought this team was just out to make a profit and continue to put crap out there on the field year after year?

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:49 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
You forgot Wilton, we would have moved Bautista to 2nd base and Freddy to SS...that would have made the team better?

I still wish we had Rob Mackowiak starting at third, he can hit HR's

Only during doubleheaders while his wife is giving birth.

By the way, Mackowiak is playing for the Newark Bears in the indy league. That's a mile away from my law school. I can hop on the light rail if I ever want to see him play.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:50 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Ryann wrote:
A real fan doesn't support the idea of trading the teams star player to save money, and get a very weak return.

You're right, they don't. Feel free to find anything I've written that would imply such an endorsement.

Quote:
A real fan supports his team every year and the goal of that fan is to see the team succed. Which should be a championship contention. Wilton you are not a fan well wait let me rephrase that you are a Bob Nutting and Neil Huntington fan but NOT a Pittsburgh Pirates fan.

I absolutely want to see the team succeed, if that definition of succeeding is winning a championship. Which is why I support any move that has that goal in mind, including the trading of Jason Bay and Nate McLouth.

And you know what? Go fuck yourself. I've been a fan of the Pirates for longer than you've been alive, and I'm still in my 20's. Just because I'm not an idiot fan like you does not make me less of a fan.
I saw what a championship caliber Pirate team looked like: it was in 1992. There is no way the Pirates will be able to get enough talent to become a team like the 1992 squad without getting more prospects, and that requires giving up something in return. Teams don't become contenders with average ballplayers leading the way.

Quote:
Pirates would have been contenders this season with.
LF Bay
CF McCutchen
RF McLouth
1b Laroche
2b Sanchez
3b Blake
ss Wilson
C Doumit
Then a very good starting pitching staff, and maybe an addition of a better reliever or 2.
We had bay for another 1.5 years and we gave him away for little return.

Bullshit. Our outfield defense would be considerably worse, making the pitching staff look considerably worse. And in case you didn't notice, our pitching staff is still bad, even with the improved outfield defense. How is it supposed to be "very good" when it's not even very good with one of the best defenses in the majors?

You're living in a dreamworld if you think that the Pirates could have contended this year with Bay and Blake.

Oh, and by the way, Andy LaRoche is a damn fine 3B. He rates as 6th among NL 3Bs in VORP, and 12th among all major league 3Bs. So don't give me this nonsense that "we gave [Bay] away from little return." Bay for LaRoche is a fine trade by itself; the fact that we got additional pieces, including a very good pitching prospect in Morris, speaks well of what we got in return.


Wilton it is now clear to me you know NOTHING about baseball! You don't want the pirates to ever be good you want prospects, prospects, prospects! Why trade quality players for prospects every time? The prospects we got for bay are trash Laroche is not a fine 3rd basemen and you declaring such a foolish statement like "Bay for LaRoche is a fine trade by itself" Proves you are not credible and should not be on this message board.
Laroche is not a great 3rd basemen. He bring no power and killed us in the first month of the season one guy gets a hot streak and you declare him god. Chris Duffy he hit pretty good when he was hot im sure you were one of the fools declare him the best. That was when David Littlefield was your inspiration. :lol:
You have because we got shitty return for Bay and every move that NH you try to act like it is the greatest of moves.

:lol: Also Wilton there is no need for such inexcusable language! :lol:


Also Nad I agree the organization has made great strides in the right direction, im simply sick of idiots like Wilton trying to defend every move the Pirates make. Bay trade wasn't right for this team and the drafting of Sanchez is a bad move.
Wilton also tries to act like the last 17 years of losing hasn't happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:00 pm 
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You dont know anything about Sanchez, neither do I, nobody does yet...probably not for two more weeks until he reports to West Virginia...

Wilton is a fan and knows alot about baseball...Never once has he advocated giving up talent for prospects all the time...You do it now to build your system back up so players are pushing and waiting for their shots...

You have to build from the foundation up, keeping Bay when you had depth in the OF to get you a future star at 3rd base (where the depth was thin) in LaRoche is a good move...Bay would be gone after this year and you still have Jose Bautista and Chris Gomez at 3rd...I'd rather have LaRoche

Wilton wants them to win, but he realizes theres almost no chance of them doing that this season...

As a wrestling coach, I had a few seasons where I knew my team was awful but I pushed them hard everyday and sent them out there going for the win every match...I had hope they'd win, but realized it was a long shot...

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:17 pm 
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Whatever, Ryann. I don't have to prove myself to you; my history with this board speaks for itself. And if you can't handle a little bad language, grow a pair. I have every right to tell you off when you challenge my fanhood.

You have yet to say one intelligent thing on this board, and your writing looks like it's been written by a 4th grader. Whether that's because you only have a 4th grade reading level is debatable but ultimately irrelevant. All you have done for the past week is bitch and complain and shout down anyone whose opinion differs with you. You have provided no value to this board since you got here, and now you're questioning the fanhood of your fellow posters because they'd rather see the team build a contender than make a fruitless effort to win 83 games. You don't provide discussion; you provide noise.

I should know better than to argue with a lazy high schooler who thinks he knows everything and yet needs Remedial English in order to learn how to communicate. Ryann's going on my foe list.

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~H. L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:19 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Whatever, Ryann. I don't have to prove myself to you; my history with this board speaks for itself. And if you can't handle a little bad language, grow a pair. I have every right to tell you off when you challenge my fanhood.

You have yet to say one intelligent thing on this board, and your writing looks like it's been written by a 4th grader. Whether that's because you only have a 4th grade reading level is debatable but ultimately irrelevant. All you have done for the past week is bitch and complain and shout down anyone whose opinion differs with you. You have provided no value to this board since you got here, and now you're questioning the fanhood of your fellow posters because they'd rather see the team build a contender than make a fruitless effort to win 83 games. You don't provide discussion; you provide noise.

I should know better than to argue with a lazy high schooler who thinks he knows everything and yet needs Remedial English in order to learn how to communicate. Ryann's going on my foe list.


Im not the only one you don't get a long with. Ive gotten private messages of people saying don't let you boss me around since they are sick of you.
I am talking Pirates baseball. Not complaining because someone isn't spelling every word right, thats right anyone who disagrees with you or has another opinion you put on your foe list. What a coward. Anyway I have no problem with other people's opinions I just declare mine. Wilton has no arguement to supply his claims so he falls back on spelling and foul language! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:26 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Whatever, Ryann. I don't have to prove myself to you; my history with this board speaks for itself. And if you can't handle a little bad language, grow a pair. I have every right to tell you off when you challenge my fanhood.

You have yet to say one intelligent thing on this board, and your writing looks like it's been written by a 4th grader. Whether that's because you only have a 4th grade reading level is debatable but ultimately irrelevant. All you have done for the past week is bitch and complain and shout down anyone whose opinion differs with you. You have provided no value to this board since you got here, and now you're questioning the fanhood of your fellow posters because they'd rather see the team build a contender than make a fruitless effort to win 83 games. You don't provide discussion; you provide noise.

I should know better than to argue with a lazy high schooler who thinks he knows everything and yet needs Remedial English in order to learn how to communicate. Ryann's going on my foe list.


I'm joining you, Wilton. I'm tired of the petty insults.


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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:28 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Willton wrote:
Whatever, Ryann. I don't have to prove myself to you; my history with this board speaks for itself. And if you can't handle a little bad language, grow a pair. I have every right to tell you off when you challenge my fanhood.

You have yet to say one intelligent thing on this board, and your writing looks like it's been written by a 4th grader. Whether that's because you only have a 4th grade reading level is debatable but ultimately irrelevant. All you have done for the past week is bitch and complain and shout down anyone whose opinion differs with you. You have provided no value to this board since you got here, and now you're questioning the fanhood of your fellow posters because they'd rather see the team build a contender than make a fruitless effort to win 83 games. You don't provide discussion; you provide noise.

I should know better than to argue with a lazy high schooler who thinks he knows everything and yet needs Remedial English in order to learn how to communicate. Ryann's going on my foe list.


Im not the only one you don't get a long with. Ive gotten private messages of people saying don't let you boss me around since they are sick of you.
I am talking Pirates baseball. Not complaining because someone isn't spelling every word right, thats right anyone who disagrees with you or has another opinion you put on your foe list. What a coward. Anyway I have no problem with other people's opinions I just declare mine. Wilton has no arguement to supply his claims so he falls back on spelling and foul language! :lol:

I've made my argument several times: the Pirates do not have the talent to compete for a championship right now, so they should trade their peak players for talent that would contribute to a future contending team. It's not my fault that you cannot recognize it.

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~H. L. Mencken


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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:39 pm 
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I would like you to hear my arguement but you totally are oblivious to what I am saying and ignore it.
Some moves the Pirates made are great like Nady some can't be judged like McLouth
Some like Bay being traded are showing to be bad moves in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
I would like you to hear my arguement but you totally are oblivious to what I am saying and ignore it.
Some moves the Pirates made are great like Nady some can't be judged like McLouth
Some like Bay being traded are showing to be bad moves in my opinion.

We hear your arguments Ryann. And, when you express them as you did above, I have no problem with them. I don't even necessarily disagree all the time. But when we do disagree or even ask clarifying questions or attempt to engage in civil debate, you call use "morons" or "fools". Or worse, you question our fandom.

It is true that many on this board are older than you. We are professionals, doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. Some of us have children who are your age or older. Many of us have been fans for years and years. We have seen the good times and the bad. We come to this board to share our passion for the Pirates. We get frustrated with how the team is playing and moves by management and we argue but, for most, there's an underlying respect that we all want the same thing. I don't get the sense that you have that respect for me or for most of the others. And, frankly, I have enough grief in real life (between my job, my mortgage and paying for two kids in college with two more still to go) to put up with being called a "moron" by you. I don't doubt your passion for the Pirates; please don't doubt mine. I respect your opinions and respect you when you articulate them civilly; please respect mine.


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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:01 pm 
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You tell me not to question people's fanhood or to not call them morons. Then you end your intelligent post with something like "But I question your passion for the Pirates"
I love the Pirates I have a ton of passion for them. Thats why I haven't given up on this season or next season. I have a lot of passion for a person who hasn't seen a Pirates winning team in their lifetime.

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 Post subject: Re: Who pitches tomorrow?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:07 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
I don't doubt your passion for the Pirates; please don't doubt mine. I respect your opinions and respect you when you articulate them civilly; please respect mine.


Where does he doubt your passion?

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