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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:28 am 
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[quote=\\\\\\\"Az Bucco fan\\\\\\\"]And to what do you attribute your superior intelligence and objectivity to Alexandria? Just curious.[/quote]
Being objective enough to know when I\\\\\\\'m being lied to. And being objective enough to criticism someone when their doing a piss poor job. Only a stooge would even attempt to defend this draft.


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:30 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
Lerud cannot hit. His ceiling is backup catcher who starts 20-30 games per year, hits .210, but has a few homers.


What about Sanchez and his projections make you think he can do better?


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:35 am 
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Ah well, I guess I should change my name to Shemp. Oh, and I believe it is criticize. Criticism just doesn't work in that sentence. Of course maybe you are so intelligent that you have developed your own rules of grammar and word usage. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:38 am 
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CNYBucs wrote:
BostonBuc wrote:
I have been (and still want to give the benefit of the doubt to the FO) but I am struggling w/ this. Had they signed Crow and Sano I think it would have been almost impossible to argue that this was 'the same old Pittsburgh'.



Exactly how I feel. Everything I have read says the Pirates have reached. Though Crow was not who I would have picked, he would have been sensible.

I have not read anything about Sanchez (other than from his coach and pr from the pirates) that merits a 1.4 pick.



We are on the same page and welcome to the board. I was using Crow as a Proxy for "consensous safe pick" from BA/BP others that do this for a living. Earlier in this thread and before the pick Curveradio (and he is) laid out the strategy.

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:39 am 
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[quote=\"Az Bucco fan\"]Ah well, I guess I should change my name to Shemp. Oh, and I believe it is criticize. Criticism just doesn\'t work in that sentence. Of course maybe you are so intelligent that you have developed your own rules of grammar and word usage. :lol:[/quote]

It would make sense that you would ignore my points about the draft and solely focus on my typo. Well done.


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:42 am 
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Alexandria Dukes wrote:
[quote=\"Az Bucco fan\"]Ah well, I guess I should change my name to Shemp. Oh, and I believe it is criticize. Criticism just doesn\'t work in that sentence. Of course maybe you are so intelligent that you have developed your own rules of grammar and word usage. :lol:


It would make sense that you would ignore my points about the draft and solely focus on my typo. Well done.[/quote]
It's the best these sorry ass apoligists can come up with they have no argument to defend what they are saying. So they dig deep and give counter-statements that say you spelled criticize wrong or didn't use a ' in didnt. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:47 am 
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CNYBucs wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Lerud cannot hit. His ceiling is backup catcher who starts 20-30 games per year, hits .210, but has a few homers.


What about Sanchez and his projections make you think he can do better?

I don't have a clue if he will or not. I won't pretend to be a baseball draft expert. I do follow the minors a bit, though, and I'm not bad at projecting how guys will turn out once they have a couple of pro seasons under their belts, minus the occasional spectacular miss.

And that sums up the difference between me and guys like Rod. When the truth is that I don't know, I'll tell you that. When Rod doesn't know, he blames Nutting.

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:51 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
CNYBucs wrote:
sisyphus wrote:

And that sums up the difference between me and guys like Rod. When the truth is that I don't know, I'll tell you that. When Rod doesn't know, he blames Nutting.


Actually I think he blames Nutting for his broken toys, rainy days, lost puppies, famine, sickness, and locusts even in biblical times when he wasn't alive. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:53 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
CNYBucs wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Lerud cannot hit. His ceiling is backup catcher who starts 20-30 games per year, hits .210, but has a few homers.


What about Sanchez and his projections make you think he can do better?

I don't have a clue if he will or not. I won't pretend to be a baseball draft expert. I do follow the minors a bit, though, and I'm not bad at projecting how guys will turn out once they have a couple of pro seasons under their belts, minus the occasional spectacular miss.

And that sums up the difference between me and guys like Rod. When the truth is that I don't know, I'll tell you that. When Rod doesn't know, he blames Nutting.


I do not know who to blame this on. As i have said a few times in this thread, I rely on what experts say and project. Sanchez does not seem to project to be an impact player. I know injuries happen and blah blah, but there were many players left with much higher ceilings than Sanchez according to the experts.

I like the model of building from within, but if the Pirates do not take guys with high ceilings in the draft where are going to get them from? Our best current player was traded for a couple of b, b+ prospects. I think it was good move for depth, but we need to take high ceiling guys in the draft and LA. Time will tell with LA.


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:53 am 
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I have heaped my share of criticism on this team for the last 10 years on this board. Too bad we don't have the archives anymore so you could see that. I just am not going to criticize a draft when I don't have enough info and insight concerning these players. What good would that do? Unless we are a scouts, we just don't have the inside track. I would love to be able to call up the former front office/now agent that I know and ask him what he thinks and I will at an appropriate time, but for now we just don't know. I understand the frustrations and negativism from the last 17 years but we just have to get over it. The pst is past and we can't change that. If being pissed and venting is all there is, then fine. I feel bad that that is all there is for some fans. I prefer to look at the glass as half full. I think I have that right.

As far as your other point, you set yourself up with your lofty opinion of your superior intelligence and objectivity. When one puts themselves up on a pedestal one opens one's self up as a target. Bad juju my friend.

Ryann, see previous paragraph.


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:54 am 
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Keep making fun of Rod...But he is right on a lot of things. Especially the continuing joke of an organization the Pirates are turning out to be.
Hmmm they have the 4th overall pick and they pick guy who in most mock drafts was going 20-30. What a joke that is the Pittsburgh Pirates for ya! Pass on the more talented pitchers and go with the less talented cheap catcher.

I am about to flip. The moves this organization makes....grrrrrr....

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:05 am 
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CNYBucs wrote:
I do not know who to blame this on. As i have said a few times in this thread, I rely on what experts say and project. Sanchez does not seem to project to be an impact player. I know injuries happen and blah blah, but there were many players left with much higher ceilings than Sanchez according to the experts.

I like the model of building from within, but if the Pirates do not take guys with high ceilings in the draft where are going to get them from? Our best current player was traded for a couple of b, b+ prospects. I think it was good move for depth, but we need to take high ceiling guys in the draft and LA. Time will tell with LA.

Since the draft has only gone three rounds so far, I won't be making any judgment on it yet. From what I've read, there just aren't that many high ceiling players out there this year. If I would have been picking I'd have taken Crow, then lowballed him with my offer. He would drop like a stone in next year's draft if he was stupid enough to return to independent ball, so you might pick up a great bargain. If he didn't sign, I'd have pick 5 next year in a draft that should have a guy who is truly worthy of that pick.

By the way, we're all overlooking one thing. The Pirates may really have Sanchez rated number four on their board.

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Last edited by sisyphus on Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:07 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Keep making fun of Rod...But he is right on a lot of things. Especially the continuing joke of an organization the Pirates are turning out to be.
Hmmm they have the 4th overall pick and they pick guy who in most mock drafts was going 20-30. What a joke that is the Pittsburgh Pirates for ya! Pass on the more talented pitchers and go with the less talented cheap catcher.

I am about to flip. The moves this organization makes....grrrrrr....


Ryann, I agree with you in regards to this pick. Can't reallyd defend that pick.


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:10 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
From what I've read, there just aren't that many high ceiling players out there this year. If I would have been picking I'd have taken Crow, then lowballed him with my offer. He would drop like a stone in next year's draft if he was stupid enough to return to independent ball, so you might pick up a great bargain. If he didn't sign, I'd have pick 5 next year in a draft that should have a guy who is truly worthy of that pick.


Thats why that would be have a sensible pick as i mentioned before. Worst case, they get 2 top 5-10 picks next year in what is supposed to be a much better draft.

I just do not see how anyone can defend the Sanchez pick. There were 2 higher rated catchers available. I just do not understand it. The Pirates will spin it, and many will just go along with what they say instead of checking independent sources. Just a sad start to what could have been a great draft for the Pirates.


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:12 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
CNYBucs wrote:


By the way, we're all overlooking one thing. The Pirates may really have Sanchez rated number four on their board.


To reply to your edit...
If that is the case, I am very, very concerned with this management group.

As I said before, I do not know who to "blame" pick on.


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:12 am 
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CNYBucs wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
From what I've read, there just aren't that many high ceiling players out there this year. If I would have been picking I'd have taken Crow, then lowballed him with my offer. He would drop like a stone in next year's draft if he was stupid enough to return to independent ball, so you might pick up a great bargain. If he didn't sign, I'd have pick 5 next year in a draft that should have a guy who is truly worthy of that pick.


Thats why that would be have a sensible pick as i mentioned before. Worst case, they get 2 top 5-10 picks next year in what is supposed to be a much better draft.

I just do not see how anyone can defend the Sanchez pick. There were 2 higher rated catchers available. I just do not understand it. The Pirates will spin it, and many will just go along with what they say instead of checking independent sources. Just a sad start to what could have been a great draft for the Pirates.

I've got to disagree there. There was nobody they could have taken who would have made it a great draft day. That takes an Alvarez type talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:16 am 
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CNYBucs wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
CNYBucs wrote:


By the way, we're all overlooking one thing. The Pirates may really have Sanchez rated number four on their board.


To reply to your edit...
If that is the case, I am very, very concerned with this management group.

As I said before, I do not know who to "blame" pick on.

Yes, it would be scary indeed if they ranked him that high. On the other hand, you see teams take reaches like this all the time in the NFL draft. Not usually good teams, I admit, but the baseball draft is way more of a crapshoot than the NFL draft is.

I think that this pick does show one thing. Huntingdon places a very high value on good defense. If his talent evaluation skills are good, we might end up with a team that looks more like the 1980's Cardinals than the Lumber Company era Pirates.

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:20 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
CNYBucs wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
From what I've read, there just aren't that many high ceiling players out there this year. If I would have been picking I'd have taken Crow, then lowballed him with my offer. He would drop like a stone in next year's draft if he was stupid enough to return to independent ball, so you might pick up a great bargain. If he didn't sign, I'd have pick 5 next year in a draft that should have a guy who is truly worthy of that pick.


Thats why that would be have a sensible pick as i mentioned before. Worst case, they get 2 top 5-10 picks next year in what is supposed to be a much better draft.

I just do not see how anyone can defend the Sanchez pick. There were 2 higher rated catchers available. I just do not understand it. The Pirates will spin it, and many will just go along with what they say instead of checking independent sources. Just a sad start to what could have been a great draft for the Pirates.

I've got to disagree there. There was nobody they could have taken who would have made it a great draft day. That takes an Alvarez type talent.



I suppose "great" was an overstatement. A very good start to the draft would have been, in my eyes, Matzek who was there. Crow, Green, Purke, or Borchering would all have been OK. Again, just my opinion, but Sanchez seems like such a reach I do not see how anyone can defend it.

I would Colorado had a GREAT first day though.


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:21 am 
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There was 1 potential impact player in the draft, Strasburg. That's it and heck he could blow out his elbow tomorrow in a bullpen session. The rest are all filler. Every draft expert said this was a weak draft, especially position players.


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Day:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:24 am 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
There was 1 potential impact player in the draft, Strasburg. That's it and heck he could blow out his elbow tomorrow in a bullpen session. The rest are all filler. Every draft expert said this was a weak draft, especially position players.


Indeed, yet we took the 3rd (by many accounts) rated catcher with the fourth overall pick. I know he was the first rated college catcher, but 3rd overall.

In a draft what is position player poor, we take a CATCHER who apparently does not project to hit well with the FOURTH PICK.

I get that there is not a lot of high end guys at the top in the draft, but that does not excuse taking a at best 20th overall talent 4th.


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