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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:19 am 
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Forget it sisy. You're not getting off on this one. You were the one, the only one, to make reference to Walker as a converted SS.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:27 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Forget it sisy. You're not getting off on this one. You were the one, the only one, to make reference to Walker as a converted SS.

ZM

Well, if he once played SS exclusively and then switched to playing C exclusively, then isn't it true that Walker was at one point a converted SS?

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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:23 am 
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I pitched in a LL all star game once. Then they moved me to RF, I guess I was an All Star picher. :roll:

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:05 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
I pitched in a LL all star game once. Then they moved me to RF, I guess I was an All Star picher. :roll:

ZM

You're the one that said that Walker was a catcher his entire career. Does that not include high school?

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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:34 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Forget it sisy. You're not getting off on this one. You were the one, the only one, to make reference to Walker as a converted SS.

ZM

Feel free to point out the post in which I claim that Walker is a converted shortstop.

I said he was a FORMER shortstop, which he is. I said the same thing back when he was moved to third base. Now call me a liar and put some money where your mouth is, and I'll produce the links that show Neil Walker was an infielder until his junior year of high school. Then you can send me a check.

Walker has less years behind the plate than I do, let alone a guy like No. 9.

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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:37 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
I pitched in a LL all star game once. Then they moved me to RF, I guess I was an All Star picher. :roll:

ZM

Walker did not play shortstop once. He was an all-section selection as a shortstop in his sophomore year.

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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:42 am 
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All what?

Look, I realize you have a need to be right about everything, even when you are wrong.

A "former" shortstop is a coverted shortstop.

Since you don't know what you are talking about, Walker was simply the best athelete playing the most important position as a young kid.

Now, don't try to say that anyone was looking at Walker as anything related to pro sports as a sophmore or younger, you'd just be embarrassing yourself.

Walker was a catcher (before his soph year btw, just not exclusively) and, most importantly and RELEVENT to this conversation, was ONLY considered a catcher by MLB scouts when he was, you know, actually scouted for play. That did not include his sophmore year. Or pony league where he played 1b. Or Baby Ruth, where he pitched and played 2nd, SS, and 3rd, depending on the inning.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:43 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
All what?

Look, I realize you have a need to be right about everything, even when you are wrong.

A "former" shortstop is a coverted shortstop.

Since you don't know what you are talking about, Walker was simply the best athelete playing the most important position as a young kid.

Now, don't try to say that anyone was looking at Walker as anything related to pro sports as a sophmore or younger, you'd just be embarrassing yourself.

Walker was a catcher (before his soph year btw, just not exclusively) and, most importantly and RELEVENT to this conversation, was ONLY considered a catcher by MLB scouts when he was, you know, actually scouted for play. That did not include his sophmore year. Or pony league where he played 1b. Or Baby Ruth, where he pitched and played 2nd, SS, and 3rd, depending on the inning.

ZM

Well now, since I posted that Walker was ONLY considered to be a catcher long before you even entered the conversation, what is your problem? Aside from the fact that it's easier to win arguments when you make up what the other guy says? I never claimed that ANY scout or organization thought of drafting him to play any other position. In fact, I think that any organization that would have tried him first at any other position would have been insane. His bat would be much more valuable behind the plate. It's just too bad that he couldn't handle the position.

Once again, here is what I said. You have three catchers with suspect defense. One cannot play another position because he's too slow. One might be able to handle first base or a corner outfield spot. One is a former shortstop. Just what is your problem with that? Neil Walker was a shortstop until his junior year of high school. I said that because it seems to indicate that the best athlete of the three is Neil Walker, making him the one who is most likely to be able to handle a tougher defensive postion than the others. Can you imagine Paulino or Doumit playing shortstop, even in Little League?

Now either put your money where your mouth is or drop the subject, because you are the one who is embarrassing himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:14 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
All what?

Look, I realize you have a need to be right about everything, even when you are wrong.

A "former" shortstop is a coverted shortstop.

Since you don't know what you are talking about, Walker was simply the best athelete playing the most important position as a young kid.

Now, don't try to say that anyone was looking at Walker as anything related to pro sports as a sophmore or younger, you'd just be embarrassing yourself.

Walker was a catcher (before his soph year btw, just not exclusively) and, most importantly and RELEVENT to this conversation, was ONLY considered a catcher by MLB scouts when he was, you know, actually scouted for play. That did not include his sophmore year. Or pony league where he played 1b. Or Baby Ruth, where he pitched and played 2nd, SS, and 3rd, depending on the inning.

ZM


It's pretty common for the best athlete on a high school baseball team to play shortstop. I don't think that should have anything to do with his potential position at the major league level. None.


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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:32 am 
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Mayor Mystery wrote:
It's pretty common for the best athlete on a high school baseball team to play shortstop. I don't think that should have anything to do with his potential position at the major league level. None.


No, but if you have a long jam at the catching position and need to move one of your prospects, the one who was athletic enough to play shortstop in high school is probably the one most likely to be able to handle another infield position. Or would you prefer to see Ron Paul trying out the hot corner?


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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:42 am 
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BBF wrote:
Mayor Mystery wrote:
It's pretty common for the best athlete on a high school baseball team to play shortstop. I don't think that should have anything to do with his potential position at the major league level. None.


No, but if you have a long jam at the catching position and need to move one of your prospects, the one who was athletic enough to play shortstop in high school is probably the one most likely to be able to handle another infield position. Or would you prefer to see Ron Paul trying out the hot corner?


I see your point and I don't have any problem with moving players from a position where you're log-jammed to another position. To me, though, where they played in high school shouldn't be a factor in this decision.

I don't have any hard numbers to back this up with anything, but I do have an educated opinion (I've followed a lot of high school baseball through the years) ... many many professional ball players played shortstop in high school. Again, this is because the best athlete on a high school baseball team very often ends up playing short. I don't think that's really a factor in pro ball since so many played there.

As for the walker case specifically, I'm torn. They were thin at catcher and thin at third. I hadn't seen him behind the plate since high school so I can't speak on how good he's been defensively. I can say, though, that with the defensive leash that Paulino and Doumit were given, I would have liked to see Walker get more of a leash at catcher.


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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:44 pm 
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sisy,

I went back and looked at all the posts I could find, and I'll apologize for misreading and misrepresenting what you said. It seems, we are in fact, saying the same thing about Walker, that his exceptional athetecism allowed for his conversion.

I guess I was too busy being Wile E. Coyote, to slow down and read.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:41 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
sisy,

I went back and looked at all the posts I could find, and I'll apologize for misreading and misrepresenting what you said. It seems, we are in fact, saying the same thing about Walker, that his exceptional athetecism allowed for his conversion.

I guess I was too busy being Wile E. Coyote, to slow down and read.

ZM

Thank you. I figured that you must have missed something, or at least misunderstood something I wrote, because we were basically saying the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:54 pm 
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Mayor Mystery wrote:
BBF wrote:
Mayor Mystery wrote:
It's pretty common for the best athlete on a high school baseball team to play shortstop. I don't think that should have anything to do with his potential position at the major league level. None.


No, but if you have a long jam at the catching position and need to move one of your prospects, the one who was athletic enough to play shortstop in high school is probably the one most likely to be able to handle another infield position. Or would you prefer to see Ron Paul trying out the hot corner?


I see your point and I don't have any problem with moving players from a position where you're log-jammed to another position. To me, though, where they played in high school shouldn't be a factor in this decision.

I don't have any hard numbers to back this up with anything, but I do have an educated opinion (I've followed a lot of high school baseball through the years) ... many many professional ball players played shortstop in high school. Again, this is because the best athlete on a high school baseball team very often ends up playing short. I don't think that's really a factor in pro ball since so many played there.

As for the walker case specifically, I'm torn. They were thin at catcher and thin at third. I hadn't seen him behind the plate since high school so I can't speak on how good he's been defensively. I can say, though, that with the defensive leash that Paulino and Doumit were given, I would have liked to see Walker get more of a leash at catcher.

Since you admit that you hadn't seen him play behind the plate after high school you are assuming that his performance was as good as Paulino and Doumit's. Isn't it possible that his performance was significantly worse than theirs had been? Come to think of it, you probably never saw Paulino or Doumit behind the plate in the minors either, so it's quite plain that you have no idea what you're talking about here. I never saw them catch in the minors, either, so I'm forced to rely on the scouting reports I read. All of them pointed out that Walker wasn't doing well as a catcher. If you doubt that, consider this: how hard do you think it would be to trade a decent defensive catcher with a live bat for a decent defensive third baseman with a similar bat?

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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:00 pm 
Walker was a good football player in high school. He should change sports.


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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:38 pm 
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His receiving was not impressive in the AFL during his stint here.


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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:26 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
Once again, here is what I said. You have three catchers with suspect defense.


I am going to note, for the 4th time this season, that Doumit is not a "plus" defensive player right now, but focusing on that fact simply ignores what is happening.

Instead of focusing on where he is, look at where he is going. His defensive improvement from last year to this has been considerable. He is playing C full-time in the majors for the first time this season. He seems like a hard worker, based on his improvement over the past 2 years - both on defense and hitting. He has a plus arm behind the plate.

By this time next season, I believe that we will look at Doumit as being a good defensive catcher. Good, not great, mind you, but his hitting will make him a very, very valuable player.


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 Post subject: Re: Neil Walker issue
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:15 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Once again, here is what I said. You have three catchers with suspect defense.


I am going to note, for the 4th time this season, that Doumit is not a "plus" defensive player right now, but focusing on that fact simply ignores what is happening.

Instead of focusing on where he is, look at where he is going. His defensive improvement from last year to this has been considerable. He is playing C full-time in the majors for the first time this season. He seems like a hard worker, based on his improvement over the past 2 years - both on defense and hitting. He has a plus arm behind the plate.

By this time next season, I believe that we will look at Doumit as being a good defensive catcher. Good, not great, mind you, but his hitting will make him a very, very valuable player.

I'd like to agree with you, but I can't. I don't think he'll ever be more than an average defender. Given his bat, average is just fine with me.

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