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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:12 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Wilton once again you prove your stupidity. Bonds in Pittsburgh is nothing like sanders was in detroit.

You are insane. Bonds left Pittsburgh as an absolute lock for the Hall of Fame, barring a serious injury that cut his career short.

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Fans didnt like Bonds he was selfish and wasnt clutch. Bonds isnt going into the hall of fame as a pirate I can tell you that. And Pirate fans certiantly dont celebrate bonds. But maybe Wilton you have a bonds shrine next to your nutting one?
I and other fans wont believe it until they see it. We have been lied to far to many times.

Without Barry Bonds you'd be bitching right now that the Pirates haven't made the playoffs since 1979, because they would have failed to win division titles in 1991, 1992 and 1993.


Are you high bonds had around 100 hits and 200 homeruns when he left the pirates! He wouldnt ever be in the hall of fame!

No kidding, jackass. Hence the words "barring serious injury that cut his career short".

Bonds left Pittsburgh a 27 year old two time MVP, and he probably should have been a three time MVP. He was a lock for 400 home runs. He was the best player in baseball. Guys like that are locks for the HOF, BARRING SERIOUS INJURIES THAT CUT THEIR CAREERS SHORT.

Want to see a list of all the guys in baseball history who won two MVP awards, but did not make the Hall of Fame? Okay, here is that list.

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Juan Gonzalez
3. Dale Murphy
4. Albert Pujols
5. Frank Thomas

Four of the five are not yet eligible for HOF voting. Three of those four are locks, and one is almost a sure thing. The fifth is Dale Murphy, who I think is likely to make it, now that they held their noses and put Jim Rice in.

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You sorry apoligists all stick up for eachother and try to put a valid argument togethor which you cant. You try to say bonds would be in the hall of fame when he left the pirates. Then you try to some up with sorry ass excuses for 17 losing seasons.

Come back and challenge me again after you learn how to read.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:13 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
DK is right.

Players are employees, and everyone knows that. As an employee, any employee of any business, you hate being lied to.

If it comes to a point where you can no longer trust the people you work for, the entire organization is going to suffer. Especially in team sports, where attitude and belief in the organization and system is so essential.

Employees earn the right to bitch by showing that they are productive. How many of these Pirates are productive players again?

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:22 pm 
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Most employees do not work in an environment where teamwork and trust are so important. Team sports are almost completely reliant on that as a big part of their success or lack thereof.


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:40 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
Most employees do not work in an environment where teamwork and trust are so important. Team sports are almost completely reliant on that as a big part of their success or lack thereof.

Spoken like a man who hasn't worked his first job yet.

I hate to tell you this, but teamwork and trust are at LEAST as important at McDonalds as it is in baseball.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:45 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
Most employees do not work in an environment where teamwork and trust are so important. Team sports are almost completely reliant on that as a big part of their success or lack thereof.


Your gonna say working on an assembly line or a job like that doesn't take team work?


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:47 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
Most employees do not work in an environment where teamwork and trust are so important. Team sports are almost completely reliant on that as a big part of their success or lack thereof.

Anyone who works in sales, manufacturing, medicine, law, marketing, or the service industry, to name a few, relies on teamwork and trust in their work, and that teamwork and trust is a huge part of the success of those industries. Baseball is not unique in this aspect.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:05 pm 
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"Spoken like a man who hasn't worked his first job yet.

I hate to tell you this, but teamwork and trust are at LEAST as important at McDonalds as it is in baseball."

Sonny boy, I was working my first job while you were in diapers, more than likely before your were ever thought of. You obviously have not played any team sports, or served in in the military. If so, you would not have posted such an assenine statement. You continue to make yourself look like a complete ass who lives in a world of theory and has no clue what the real world operates as. I'll bet you are a college kid, or maybe even a college professor. I've been watching your type for six decades, and you are a dime a dozen.

Stay in your little dream world, thinking that you are the sole expert on baseball and that anyone who disagrees with your eternal "five year plan that never quite gets there" just doesn't "get it".

Anytime anyone questions your statements in a way that you cannot logically counter you use personal attacks to direct attention from the discussion. A true sign of someone who is not capable of critical thinking, or is so certain of his own infallability that he will not admit to or recognize the possibility that he is full of it.

I am not one of those who think this was a salary dump, or was influenced by some diabolical motive. But, trading a Gold Glove, All Star power hitting outfielder for three minor leaguers that someday "might" be able to be on the same field is just plain STUPID.


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:09 pm 
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Steve I must ask do you say teamwork in trust is or is not important in baseball. I play high school baseball and I say it is very important.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:10 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
"Spoken like a man who hasn't worked his first job yet.

I hate to tell you this, but teamwork and trust are at LEAST as important at McDonalds as it is in baseball."

Sonny boy, I was working my first job while you were in diapers, more than likely before your were ever thought of. You obviously have not played any team sports, or served in in the military. If so, you would not have posted such an assenine statement. You continue to make yourself look like a complete ass who lives in a world of theory and has no clue what the real world operates as. I'll bet you are a college kid, or maybe even a college professor. I've been watching your type for six decades, and you are a dime a dozen.

Stay in your little dream world, thinking that you are the sole expert on baseball and that anyone who disagrees with your eternal "five year plan that never quite gets there" just doesn't "get it".

Anytime anyone questions your statements in a way that you cannot logically counter you use personal attacks to direct attention from the discussion. A true sign of someone who is not capable of critical thinking, or is so certain of his own infallability that he will not admit to or recognize the possibility that he is full of it.

I am not one of those who think this was a salary dump, or was influenced by some diabolical motive. But, trading a Gold Glove, All Star power hitting outfielder for three minor leaguers that someday "might" be able to be on the same field is just plain STUPID.


Steve -
Care to share an opinion as to what should be done instead of being critical of what is done after the fact? C'mon. You have to have an opinion as to what team the Pirates' ownership should be emulating.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:15 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
"Spoken like a man who hasn't worked his first job yet.

I hate to tell you this, but teamwork and trust are at LEAST as important at McDonalds as it is in baseball."

Sonny boy, I was working my first job while you were in diapers, more than likely before your were ever thought of.

Possibly, in which case you're at least eligible for retirement, and you have learned very little during your decades in the workforce.

Quote:
You obviously have not played any team sports, or served in in the military.

To address the non sequitor, no, I did not serve in the military. As for team sports, I lettered in three and was the captain in one in high school, and, in the case of football, I turned down 14 Division 3 schools who wanted me to play for them because I just didn't want to play any more.

Quote:
If so, you would not have posted such an assenine statement. You continue to make yourself look like a complete ass who lives in a world of theory and has no clue what the real world operates as. I'll bet you are a college kid, or maybe even a college professor. I've been watching your type for six decades, and you are a dime a dozen.

I'm seeing a lot of bullshit, a lot of insults, but not a single argument that would show that teamwork is not important in the work world.

By the way, I'm 48 years old, and no, I'm not a college professor, either. But I've put in a lot of time managing a lot of people, and I understand the value of teamwork and trust in the work world. Much more so than in an INDIVIDUAL sport like baseball, which basically boils down to hitter vs. pitcher a vast majority of the time.

Quote:
Stay in your little dream world, thinking that you are the sole expert on baseball and that anyone who disagrees with your eternal "five year plan that never quite gets there".

Amazing how you can watch something unfold before your very eyes without managing to actually see it.

Quote:
Anytime anyone questions your statements in a way that you cannot logically counter you use personal attacks to direct attention from the discussion. A true sign of someone who is not capable of critical thinking, or is so certain of his own infallability that he will not admit to or recognize the possibility that he is full of it.

LOL. Read your own post. I still don't see anything that counters my assertion. I see nothing but one insult after another. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Quote:
I am not one of those who think this was a salary dump, or was influenced by some diabolical motive. But, trading a Gold Glove, All Star power hitting outfielder for three minor leaguers that someday "might" be able to be on the same field is just plain STUPID.

I'm willing to grant that you must be an authority on stupidity.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:19 pm 
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You guys keep quoting the "successes" of Cleveland on Minnesota, to name a couple. None of the small market teams have ever achieved consistent success, year in and year out. The simple fact is that economics won't allow it. Anyone who doesn't see that is not a realist.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Pirates. But, you've got to be realize and accept what they are. The best a small market team can do in this day and age is be consistently "competitive", which in my opinion the Buccos are now. By competitive I mean a team that can consistently play on a level at or above .500. This team may have been able to do that. On occasion you will have a "Ray-like" year, when all the pieces fall in place and one really gets close. But, without a salary cap like exists in Pro football, any small market team that believes they can become a "dynasty" type that competes for the WS every year is whistling past the graveyard. This ain't 1965 anymore, the deep pockets teams will be the ones that jockey for championships, consistently. Before you start, don't give me that crap about the Yankees having a bad year....I would put thier record over the past ten years against any small market team.

So, that is the That is whay the McLouth deal jerks me off so, I am not convinced it was necessary, at least at this time.


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:26 pm 
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"I'm willing to grant that you must be an authority on stupidity"

No, I will defer that title to you anyday.

Although teamwork is valuable, there is no private sector job where it is as valuable or has such an effect as it does in team sports or the military. Example, in team sports or in the military everyone must give 100 percent all the time, their teammates depend on it either to win or to stay alive.

At McDonalds, it is not nearly as important, I'm sorry. On an assembly line, it isn't either. Although it is important, the success or failure of the entire enterprise is not dependent on it.....that's a yuppie train of thought, nice in theory and short on reality. And as far as your stated stellar athletic record, and your stated work record, I am surprised you don't realize that.

Perhaps a little stint in the military might have taught you that, as well as the value of loyalty to the members of your unit.


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:28 pm 
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Baseball is a huge team sport. A team will not win with just one player playing well. It is a team effort all the time.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:34 pm 
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I must clarify something here, it's important.

In my zeal of comparing the importance of team attitude, I in no way meant to compare athletics to a combat situation. I've experienced both, and believe me, there is NO WAY an athletic contest even comes close to intensity or importance. Not even anywhere close.

I need to clarify that.


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:43 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Baseball is a huge team sport. A team will not win with just one player playing well. It is a team effort all the time.


Baseball does require people to work as a team, but so do alot of others things in life also.


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:49 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
"I'm willing to grant that you must be an authority on stupidity"

No, I will defer that title to you anyday.

Although teamwork is valuable, there is no private sector job where it is as valuable or has such an effect as it does in team sports or the military. Example, in team sports or in the military everyone must give 100 percent all the time, their teammates depend on it either to win or to stay alive.

You keep bringing up the military in the same breath as the military. I have two problems with that. Number one, I'm not at a military board arguing about the importance of teamwork in the military. Number two, one is a game, and the other is life or death, and I would never insult any military person by equating war with a stupid game.

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At McDonalds, it is not nearly as important, I'm sorry.

You should try running that past any McDonalds manager at any level of the company.

Quote:
On an assembly line, it isn't either. Although it is important, the success or failure of the entire enterprise is not dependent on it.....that's a yuppie train of thought, nice in theory and short on reality. And as far as your stated stellar athletic record, and your stated work record, I am surprised you don't realize that.

Perhaps a little stint in the military might have taught you that, as well as the value of loyalty to the members of your unit.

I didn't have to serve in the military to see how insulting it is for your to continue to compare war to a stupid game.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:51 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Baseball is a huge team sport. A team will not win with just one player playing well. It is a team effort all the time.

Not true. Baseball comes down to hitter versus pitcher. Once the ball is put into play, it usually only involves two or three defenders at most. Out of all the major team sports, "teamwork" is least important in baseball.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:52 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
I must clarify something here, it's important.

In my zeal of comparing the importance of team attitude, I in no way meant to compare athletics to a combat situation. I've experienced both, and believe me, there is NO WAY an athletic contest even comes close to intensity or importance. Not even anywhere close.

I need to clarify that.

Thank you. I withdraw all my statements on the subject.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:40 pm 
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Your withdrawals are accepted.

However, had your read my post before you responded, and it was made before your response, your withdawal would not have been necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:47 am 
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Steve1118 wrote:
You guys keep quoting the "successes" of Cleveland on Minnesota, to name a couple. None of the small market teams have ever achieved consistent success, year in and year out. The simple fact is that economics won't allow it. Anyone who doesn't see that is not a realist.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Pirates. But, you've got to be realize and accept what they are. The best a small market team can do in this day and age is be consistently "competitive", which in my opinion the Buccos are now. By competitive I mean a team that can consistently play on a level at or above .500. This team may have been able to do that. On occasion you will have a "Ray-like" year, when all the pieces fall in place and one really gets close. But, without a salary cap like exists in Pro football, any small market team that believes they can become a "dynasty" type that competes for the WS every year is whistling past the graveyard. This ain't 1965 anymore, the deep pockets teams will be the ones that jockey for championships, consistently. Before you start, don't give me that crap about the Yankees having a bad year....I would put thier record over the past ten years against any small market team.

So, that is the That is whay the McLouth deal jerks me off so, I am not convinced it was necessary, at least at this time.


Umm...Check your facts...

Minnesota is constantly in the race every season...Since 2001 they have had 7 seasons of .500 plus baseball, four 1st place finishes, two 2nd place finishes, two 3rd place finishes, and four playoff appearances with one trip to the ALCS...They are currently 3 games under .500 and in 2nd place...

Cleveland is competitive year in and year out too...Since 2001 they had 4 seasons .500 plus baseball, two 1st place finishes, one 2nd place finish, three 3rd place finishes, two 4th place finishes, and two playoff appearances including an ALCS trip that went 7 games...They're 9 games under .500 now and are last, but have had major injury issues this season and last...

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