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 Post subject: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:42 am 
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http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09156/975121-192.stm

Like any draft pick or trade, you dont know how it will pan out...you have to wait. Untill the Pirates win, the same old pattern of how they run the team will be looked at negatively. People have heard the same old spin from ownership/management. I read where they said the guy traded was a corner to build upon. Ownership/management double talking is nothing new. The one constant through most of the record setting losing has been the Nutting family. Shtt flows downhill....the Nuttings have been at the top of the Pirates hill.....long before Ogdens boy wonder became the front man.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:53 am 
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Prove it before you continue assinine statements.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:02 pm 
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ZM,

He certainly could have selected less colorful language for his statement and it didn't add much of value but I don't see much that needs proving in the post.



Like any draft pick or trade, you dont know how it will pan out you have to wait. (What are you going to argue with there?)

Untill the Pirates win, the same old pattern of how they run the team will be looked at negatively. (Very true. The management won't be able to make a right move in many fans mind until a winner is placed on the field)

People have heard the same old spin from ownership/management. (Again, hard to argue).

I read where they said the guy traded was a corner to build upon. Ownership/management double talking is nothing new. (Read the quotes from the contract extension)

The one constant through most of the record setting losing has been the Nutting family. (Again, largely true).

Shtt flows downhill.... (Unnecessary color)

the Nuttings have been at the top of the Pirates hill.....long before Ogdens boy wonder became the front man. (True)


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:04 pm 
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Jesus what a bunch of whining crybabies. What the hell does the Post Gazette know about running a baseball team?

McClouth was a good player and they traded him. Unless you are 9, get over it! The statements that were made when McClouth was signed reflected their sentiment at the time. They weren't locking themselves into any set behavior. They did what they thought was best at the time and will continue to do so.

These guys have been running the team for about a year and a half. In my estimation, they have done a remarkable job of rebuilding the talent base in that limited amount of time. They seem to know what they are doing, they just need a little more time. Then the whining ignorant masses will be back on the bandwagon.


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:06 pm 
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MoTownWV wrote:

The one constant through most of the record setting losing has been the Nutting family. (Again, largely true).


False. Has been shown over and over.



Quote:
the Nuttings have been at the top of the Pirates hill.....long before Ogdens boy wonder became the front man. (True)


False, as has been shown again and again.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:15 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
MoTownWV wrote:

The one constant through most of the record setting losing has been the Nutting family. (Again, largely true).


False. Has been shown over and over.



Quote:
the Nuttings have been at the top of the Pirates hill.....long before Ogdens boy wonder became the front man. (True)


False, as has been shown again and again.

ZM


I see nothing false there. How long has the Nutting family held ownership in the Pirates? You can split hairs on the "controlling interest" debate but they have held some ownership and have had some say in operations for much of this on going debacle. And Ogden was without debate controlling things before Huntington was hired.


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:19 pm 
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You can go to the PG to see how this is false.

I have posted the reasons several times here, and refuse to do so again. Its still in the recent posts.

Short story, McClatchey had 2 votes for every 1. And, a coalition. Nutting was a minority partner that entered later.

"Controlling" interest is the key. It is not a "quibbling" point. It is the key.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:25 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
MoTownWV wrote:

The one constant through most of the record setting losing has been the Nutting family. (Again, largely true).


False. Has been shown over and over.



Quote:
the Nuttings have been at the top of the Pirates hill.....long before Ogdens boy wonder became the front man. (True)


False, as has been shown again and again.

ZM


This is the reference that proves that both of these statements are false:
Quote:
From the Pirates official site(Article about McClatchy selling his shares)
The six-person board will now sit at five with the departure of McClatchy, who had stepped down as the Pirates' CEO and managing general partner after the 2007 season. McClatchy was also the team's controlling owner, a tenure which began in 1996, until giving those reins to current owner Bob Nutting at the beginning of 2007.


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:26 pm 
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I actually keep that reference in my sitemail box just for occasions or discussions such as these.


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:42 pm 
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Truly I dont even know why I engaged in this discussion. I don't have a major grip with the concept of trading Nate. I think the timing was a little bizarre. I just wish the Pirates would undertake a true rebuild effort. They have never unloaded everyone like the Marlins have on a couple of occassions. If you were going to trade away Bay and Nady last year, why hold onto Adam, Nate and Jack? Why sign Hinske? Just strip it down and end this process of trading every player that is going to be your "core". Acknowledge there isn't enough talent to win now and that last year started another 5 yr plan. It is cruel to continually hold hope in front of the fans and the rip it away. And go ahead and trade Zach Duke is the theory is we arent going to win now and you want to trade players at top value. Trade Jack Wilson and put his salary to work in Latin America. Get whatever value you can out of Adam LaRoche. And jettison the Hinskes and Monroes of the world. If you a truly dedicated to rebuilding 100 loses shouldnt bother anyone when you end the season 20 games back or more does it really matter how many games you won or lost?


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
I actually keep that reference in my sitemail box just for occasions or discussions such as these.


You can pull this from the Nutting's official MLB bio

"Robert (Bob) Nutting serves as Chairman of the Board of the Pittsburgh Pirates. Bob assumed control of the club in January of 2007, thus becoming the sixth principal owner in the history of the Pittsburgh Pirates. He has served as Chairman of the Board and represented his family's interest in the club since 2003."

So you folks are arguing the Chairman of the Board for the past 6 years has held no influence over the organization's decisions?


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:22 pm 
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MoTownWV wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
I actually keep that reference in my sitemail box just for occasions or discussions such as these.


You can pull this from the Nutting's official MLB bio

"Robert (Bob) Nutting serves as Chairman of the Board of the Pittsburgh Pirates. Bob assumed control of the club in January of 2007, thus becoming the sixth principal owner in the history of the Pittsburgh Pirates. He has served as Chairman of the Board and represented his family's interest in the club since 2003."

So you folks are arguing the Chairman of the Board for the past 6 years has held no influence over the organization's decisions?


Of course they are.

They spend every waking hour worshipping at their shrines they've built to the Nutting Family in their bedrooms. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Nutting, of Wheeling, W.Va., and his father, G. Ogden Nutting, were part of the ownership group McClatchy pieced together to buy the franchise in February 1996. Their stake began with a $2 million loan to McClatchy, and they snapped up portions of the team as members withdrew from the group.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:55 pm 
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And who was the Chief Executive Officer and Managing General Partner, with 2 votes to every 1 in that time???

Eh, I await your answer along with the explanation of how minority owners override the CEO and GMP decisions.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:02 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
And who was the Chief Executive Officer and Managing General Partner, with 2 votes to every 1 in that time???

Eh, I await your answer along with the explanation of how minority owners override the CEO and GMP decisions.

ZM


Exactly!


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:07 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
And who was the Chief Executive Officer and Managing General Partner, with 2 votes to every 1 in that time???

Eh, I await your answer along with the explanation of how minority owners override the CEO and GMP decisions.

ZM


When the Nutting Family finally sells their franchise after they are done fleecing the fans, I will expect your resignation as a Pirate Fan.

You don't deserve it. You are a Nutting worshipper. Period. Not a fan.


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:10 pm 
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Rod Serling wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
And who was the Chief Executive Officer and Managing General Partner, with 2 votes to every 1 in that time???

Eh, I await your answer along with the explanation of how minority owners override the CEO and GMP decisions.

ZM


When the Nutting Family finally sells their franchise after they are done fleecing the fans, I will expect your resignation as a Pirate Fan.

You don't deserve it. You are a Nutting worshipper. Period. Not a fan.


Your problem with ZM is that he doesn't worship you and what you spout.

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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:22 pm 
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"Spout"? What I "Spout"?

You mean the part about how Nutting has been a factor for longer than any name involved with ownership?

Or the part about how the franchise trades its best players for minor league talent every year since he's been the main decision maker?

Or the part about the 17 years of losing?

Or the part about how Bay was acquired for Giles, and then Bay was traded away anyway?

Or the part about how management called Nate a 'cornerstone', then traded him for three minor league players?


Which part of "spouting" would all of this entail, exactly?


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:26 pm 
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With the exception of the Mark Cuban statement (the guy's a nut), the editorial simply states exactly what so many fans feel. You can argue, cajole, hold your breath until you turn blue, but the truth is the truth.

The Kool-Aid drinkers and apologists don't get it, but that's not really important. The bucs have a big, big, PR problem, and that's a fact. There are more fans like me than Kool-Aid drinkers.....it is revealed by the attendance (and a single game against the Mets doesn't disprove that).


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 Post subject: Re: From the Post Gazette Editorial
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:32 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
With the exception of the Mark Cuban statement (the guy's a nut), the editorial simply states exactly what so many fans feel. You can argue, cajole, hold your breath until you turn blue, but the truth is the truth.

The Kool-Aid drinkers and apologists don't get it, but that's not really important. The bucs have a big, big, PR problem, and that's a fact. There are more fans like me than Kool-Aid drinkers.....it is revealed by the attendance (and a single game against the Mets doesn't disprove that).



Shh. Stop telling the truth and making sense.

It just doesn't play well with some folks around here.


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