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 Post subject: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:02 am 
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I know this will be blown off by the elitests on this board....after all, the baseball experts that post here are much, much, more knowledgeable than the general public.....but the trade of McLouth for more prospects is not being well recieved.

A full 67 percent say they are outraged or simply done.

I know they are all stupid, but they do buy tickets and the simple fact is that the Pirates have a perception problem.....a big, big one. As long as they keep moving quality players for those that are unproven, dumping salaries, and "building for a future" that never seems to get here, their goodwill just heads further down the toilet.

This is a big problem, and getting bigger every time they do this.


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:04 am 
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Steve1118 wrote:
I know this will be blown off by the elitests on this board....after all, the baseball experts that post here are much, much, more knowledgeable than the general public.....but the trade of McLouth for more prospects is not being well recieved.

A full 67 percent say they are outraged or simply done.

I know they are all stupid, but they do buy tickets and the simple fact is that the Pirates have a perception problem.....a big, big one. As long as they keep moving quality players for those that are unproven, dumping salaries, and "building for a future" that never seems to get here, their goodwill just heads further down the toilet.

This is a big problem, and getting bigger every time they do this.

Then let them be done. They will come back when the team is winning in 3 years.

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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:08 am 
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Wow, can't understand why they would trade an All Star catcher for three nobodies from St. Louis.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:10 am 
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Quote:
Huntington described the call as emotional for him.

"Brutal," he said. "I like Nate, and he's a heck of a baseball player. I really mean it when I say he's the type of player we want to build around. But we need a lot of good players. We need depth at all levels. We need a strong group coming behind this one."

Some of McLouth's teammates, predictably, were disappointed or outright angry. Several called each other last night, according to many accounts, and expressed dismay that management removed a key piece with the team at 24-28 -- despite missing cleanup-hitting catcher Ryan Doumit for two months -- and having some of the best pitching in Major League Baseball.

Shortstop Jack Wilson, the Pirates' most tenured and popular player, was among them.

"It's a shock to all of us," he said. "I've been talking to a lot of the guys, and this is not going to be viewed very highly in the clubhouse by any means. We're a team, and we were battling without our catcher, waiting for him to get back. To lose your best all-around player -- and that's what Nate was, in terms of power, speed and defense -- and to do it so early in the season ... that's going to be tough to get over."

Huntington sounded braced for that, too.

"Our players are probably going to have a difficult time understanding this, probably going to have a difficult time supporting this," he said. "But, as we know them to be professionals, we expect them to come out and continue to play hard."


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09155/975012-63.stm

From my point of view of being a wrestling coach...I went from Pennsylvania to a small town in Montana to coach varsity wrestling and had the entire community on my back watching my every move, almost like the storyline of Hoosiers...I have to feel for Frank and Neal having to put up with a lot of people questioning their decisions and wanting their heads, but they have a plan and are sticking with it and are not being swayed in changing it...

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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:20 am 
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"Then let them be done. They will come back when the team is winning in 3 years."

Yeah. Right. We've heard that before, in all of the many five year plans we've had since 2001.

I love how you guys keep letting them string you along......if, at this time (early June) three years from now they are only 4 games under .500, you'll be telling everyone how successful this has been....


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:23 am 
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Steve1118 wrote:
"Then let them be done. They will come back when the team is winning in 3 years."

Yeah. Right. We've heard that before, in all of the many five year plans we've had since 2001.

I love how you guys keep letting them string you along......


You must not have been watching closely the past year and a half, as this group in place in the front office have a plan and are building from the ground up...like a foundation of a building...

You dont see contractors putting the roof and the windows on a building before the foundation is set, the same applies here...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:39 am 
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nad69dan wrote:
Steve1118 wrote:
"Then let them be done. They will come back when the team is winning in 3 years."

Yeah. Right. We've heard that before, in all of the many five year plans we've had since 2001.

I love how you guys keep letting them string you along......


You must not have been watching closely the past year and a half, as this group in place in the front office have a plan and are building from the ground up...like a foundation of a building...

You dont see contractors putting the roof and the windows on a building before the foundation is set, the same applies here...

Steve clearly has not been watching closely. Otherwise he'd understand the huge difference between the trades of Littlefield and the trades of Huntington. Littlefield always traded players when he had very little leverage left regarding his players, and he almost always chose mediocre major-league ready players over high-end minor league prospects as the return on his trades. Huntington, on the contrary, has been seeking out players with considerable upside (Andy LaRoche, Brian Morris, Jose Tabata, Jeff Locke, Gorkys Hernandez) that have the potential to be very good players in the future.

The differences between the two regimes are stark, and I don't understand how anyone can consider Coonelly and Huntington to be "the same old song." Anyone that does think that this is the same old song is clearly a casual fan that does not care to actually pay attention to the way the business of baseball works.

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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:51 am 
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Fans come, fans go, big freakin deal. I am thankful everyday that we have a FO that doesn't make decisions based upon the "general Public," otherwise we would still have Littlefield.

I don't care if people are "angry" or "done," don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. We'll see you in a few years when we are in the playoffs with much of the trade returns making up a championship roster. The rest of us will still be here seeing this thing through.


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:03 pm 
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I like this deal for the upside. It's not like NH got mid-level talent here. He got two top-ten guys in the Braves system and a pitcher that would have been ranked had it not been for the fact that he already has major league experience.

Look, I get the fact that Nate was a franchise favorite and the most marketable person on the club, but the cold reality is this team wasn't going anywhere with him.

The Bucs just fortified their farm system even more AND finally got the Andrew McCutchen era started. All for a guy who had a "career year" in 2008..not a bad deal at all.

BTW, Gorkys will make his debut tomorrow night at BCB for the Curve. No word on who will be moved up, though if I were a betting man I would say either Jonel Pacheco, Jason Delaney or the new guy Corsaletti.


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:47 pm 
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The PG poll is skewed because there was no viable option for a lot of people. I took one glance at the choices and declined to vote. I'm not ready to take the bridge over this trade, but I understand why it was done. That doesn't make me "happy" to see Nate go.


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:58 pm 
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curveradio wrote:
BTW, Gorkys will make his debut tomorrow night at BCB for the Curve.


Curve- please give us a report on what he looks like as a player. Is he going to be a punch and Judy guy, or is there some power potential there? Maybe a late bloomer in that regard like Alex Rios?


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:30 pm 
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Will do.. I am actually going to be speaking with Phillip Wellman (Mississippi manager and friend of mine) in about 15 minutes to get his opinion on Gorkys..


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:33 pm 
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I read somewhere today Huntington mentioned he's got a body similar to McCutchen that the power will come when he matures and fills out some...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Whenever I see Gorkys it makes me think there are more than one.

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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:50 pm 
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Okay, I just got off the phone with Phillip Wellman, manager of the Mississippi Braves..he has been in Double-A ball with the Braves and Reds organization for the past ten years..

After I hung up the phone with Phillip, I am even more convinced that NH just pulled off potentially one of the biggest heists since the Pena deal. Here is what Phillip had to say about Gorkys...

He might be the best defensive center-fielder I have ever seen...he can flat-out fly...his arm is VERY legit and VERY accurate (keep in mind..this guy saw Andruw Jones in his prime..I asked him if he was better than Andruw and Phillip said he's on par with Andruw Jones)..said he could be in the majors right now defensively...offensively, he strikes out a little too much.. needs to work on his strike zone judgement, but he has some gap pop in his bat...when his body fills out, Phillip believes he will hit 15-20 homers with multiple gold gloves in center..

Having said that...with McCutchen in left, Gorkys in center and Tabata in right..that might be the fastest outfield in recent history..

I can't wait to see this guy in person tomorrow night...


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:52 pm 
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sounds great...it sucks to lose a nice guy like Nate, but all 3 in return look like they can be very good, and possibly soon...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Steve1118 wrote:
I know this will be blown off by the elitests on this board....after all, the baseball experts that post here are much, much, more knowledgeable than the general public.....but the trade of McLouth for more prospects is not being well recieved.

A full 67 percent say they are outraged or simply done.

I know they are all stupid, but they do buy tickets and the simple fact is that the Pirates have a perception problem.....a big, big one. As long as they keep moving quality players for those that are unproven, dumping salaries, and "building for a future" that never seems to get here, their goodwill just heads further down the toilet.

This is a big problem, and getting bigger every time they do this.

Then let them be done. They will come back when the team is winning in 3 years.


A quote that your sorry a** will be backing away from as early as the middle of next year.

GUARANTEED. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:27 pm 
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curveradio wrote:
Okay, I just got off the phone with Phillip Wellman, manager of the Mississippi Braves..he has been in Double-A ball with the Braves and Reds organization for the past ten years..

After I hung up the phone with Phillip, I am even more convinced that NH just pulled off potentially one of the biggest heists since the Pena deal. Here is what Phillip had to say about Gorkys...

He might be the best defensive center-fielder I have ever seen...he can flat-out fly...his arm is VERY legit and VERY accurate (keep in mind..this guy saw Andruw Jones in his prime..I asked him if he was better than Andruw and Phillip said he's on par with Andruw Jones)..said he could be in the majors right now defensively...offensively, he strikes out a little too much.. needs to work on his strike zone judgement, but he has some gap pop in his bat...when his body fills out, Phillip believes he will hit 15-20 homers with multiple gold gloves in center..
Having said that...with McCutchen in left, Gorkys in center and Tabata in right..that might be the fastest outfield in recent history..

I can't wait to see this guy in person tomorrow night...



As soon as he hits ONE, in the minor leagues...
:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:45 pm 
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Rod Serling wrote:
As soon as he hits ONE, in the minor leagues...
:lol:


We get it. Please please please stop.

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 Post subject: Re: PG Poll on McClouth deal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:50 pm 
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Actually, he has 18 home runs in the minors and coming into this season, he had over 20 doubles in each of the last two seasons. Why the sarcasm on this kid?? I get the fact that you are a pi**ed off Pirates fan but perhaps you need to look at the bigger picture going on instead of being a "debby downer"


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