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 Post subject: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:08 pm 
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I am not sure if many here follow the draft or not, but I believe it's next week. There's a lot of speculation on whom the Pirates should take considering there really isn't a solid #4 player hanging out there. But this thread isn't to debate who the Pirates should take, but rather to discuss the financial implications of their first pick and the draft and beyond. For me, I think there are picks they could make that signify they are looking to keep costs low on this draft. And there are picks they could make that show they aren't worried about high bonus demands or agents.

So basically, are there players you think could tip which direction the club is going? If they take Missouri pitcher Kyle Gibson, does that mean they're looking to spend as little as possible? Or if they go outside the top 20 of many pre-draft predictions, does that clearly indicate this? Or if they go with a high school guy many believe won't sign (Donovan Tate), does this prove they're willing to pony up whatever it takes to make this the best draft possible?

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:17 pm 
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According to John Perrotto, (He's a respected Pirates beat reporter Wilton) and his conversation with the great Opie, PirateNation is going to be dissapointed with the draft pick this year.

http://www.piratesreport.com/page/conte ... l?nav=5008

Way to go fellas. If we draft soft tossers like Kyle Gibson or Mike Minor (who's a second round talent BTW) at 4, we'll surely be contenders in no time!

Seriously, if this team does not go out and draft a high school kid who can throw the ball 95 mph with regularity or Donovan Tate, then their idea of how they're trying to make the team better is lost to me.

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:27 pm 
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omgardd wrote:
According to John Perrotto, (He's a respected Pirates beat reporter Wilton) and his conversation with the great Opie, PirateNation is going to be dissapointed with the draft pick this year.

http://www.piratesreport.com/page/conte ... l?nav=5008

Way to go fellas. If we draft soft tossers like Kyle Gibson or Mike Minor (who's a second round talent BTW) at 4, we'll surely be contenders in no time!

Seriously, if this team does not go out and draft a high school kid who can throw the ball 95 mph with regularity or Donovan Tate, then their idea of how they're trying to make the team better is lost to me.

I think that quote in the article can be a little misleading. We don't even know what the question was. So by disappointing does he mean it's not a big name like Pedro Alvarez or Stephen Strasburg? Could this just be a negotiating plow? So it's an interesting quote from the Pirates that could be interpreted several different ways.


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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Alexandria Dukes wrote:
omgardd wrote:
According to John Perrotto, (He's a respected Pirates beat reporter Wilton) and his conversation with the great Opie, PirateNation is going to be dissapointed with the draft pick this year.

http://www.piratesreport.com/page/conte ... l?nav=5008

Way to go fellas. If we draft soft tossers like Kyle Gibson or Mike Minor (who's a second round talent BTW) at 4, we'll surely be contenders in no time!

Seriously, if this team does not go out and draft a high school kid who can throw the ball 95 mph with regularity or Donovan Tate, then their idea of how they're trying to make the team better is lost to me.

I think that quote in the article can be a little misleading. We don't even know what the question was. So by disappointing does he mean it's not a big name like Pedro Alvarez or Stephen Strasburg? Could this just be a negotiating plow? So it's an interesting quote from the Pirates that could be interpreted several different ways.


I can certainly see your point, and for all intents and purposes you could be correct. However in my years of experience in following the Pittsburgh Pirates baseball organization, and this especially pertains to the recent era, I take the quote "the city of Pittsburgh is going to be dissapointed with the pick." to mean we're going to go out and badly reach on somebody with the 4th pick. Now don't take that to mean we're trying to save money, I'm actually going to give Opie the benefit of the doubt this time when he says the money we have for the draft and the money we're using to try to sign Sano are coming from two different pools of money. I have a bad feeling about it, but this time I'll give them a chance to prove me wrong.

Anyway, rather I think they're honestly trying for an experienced college arm at 4 rather than BPA and are going to end up with another Bullington. JMO.

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:44 pm 
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omgardd wrote:

I can certainly see your point, and for all intents and purposes you could be correct. However in my years of experience in following the Pittsburgh Pirates baseball organization, and this especially pertains to the recent era, I take the quote "the city of Pittsburgh is going to be dissapointed with the pick." to mean we're going to go out and badly reach on somebody with the 4th pick. .


And, therein lies your fundemental problem. This organization is NOT the one you were watching for "years". It has had one draft so far, and by all accounts a very good one. And, one in which they "spent money"!

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:59 pm 
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omgardd wrote:
Alexandria Dukes wrote:
omgardd wrote:
According to John Perrotto, (He's a respected Pirates beat reporter Wilton) and his conversation with the great Opie, PirateNation is going to be dissapointed with the draft pick this year.

http://www.piratesreport.com/page/conte ... l?nav=5008

Way to go fellas. If we draft soft tossers like Kyle Gibson or Mike Minor (who's a second round talent BTW) at 4, we'll surely be contenders in no time!

Seriously, if this team does not go out and draft a high school kid who can throw the ball 95 mph with regularity or Donovan Tate, then their idea of how they're trying to make the team better is lost to me.

I think that quote in the article can be a little misleading. We don't even know what the question was. So by disappointing does he mean it's not a big name like Pedro Alvarez or Stephen Strasburg? Could this just be a negotiating plow? So it's an interesting quote from the Pirates that could be interpreted several different ways.


I can certainly see your point, and for all intents and purposes you could be correct. However in my years of experience in following the Pittsburgh Pirates baseball organization, and this especially pertains to the recent era, I take the quote "the city of Pittsburgh is going to be dissapointed with the pick." to mean we're going to go out and badly reach on somebody with the 4th pick. Now don't take that to mean we're trying to save money, I'm actually going to give Opie the benefit of the doubt this time when he says the money we have for the draft and the money we're using to try to sign Sano are coming from two different pools of money. I have a bad feeling about it, but this time I'll give them a chance to prove me wrong.

Anyway, rather I think they're honestly trying for an experienced college arm at 4 rather than BPA and are going to end up with another Bullington. JMO.

And you could very well be right. We've heard rumors and now this odd quote. Guess we know for sure next week. But what concerns me is the Pirates thinking after Strasburg and Ackley, the rest of the lot is nothing more than guys who would be 15-30 picks in a normal draft. So why not go ahead and ignore the guys slated to be picked in the top 10 and take someone projected in the 20's. In the Pirate's eyes, they would be getting equal talent to someone like Crow or Miller, but for significantly less.


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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:00 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
omgardd wrote:

I can certainly see your point, and for all intents and purposes you could be correct. However in my years of experience in following the Pittsburgh Pirates baseball organization, and this especially pertains to the recent era, I take the quote "the city of Pittsburgh is going to be dissapointed with the pick." to mean we're going to go out and badly reach on somebody with the 4th pick. .


And, therein lies your fundemental problem. This organization is NOT the one you were watching for "years". It has had one draft so far, and by all accounts a very good one. And, one in which they "spent money"!

ZM


Ok. So tell me what the quote "the city of Pittsburgh is going to be dissapointed with the pick." means to you.

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:02 pm 
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omgardd wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
omgardd wrote:

I can certainly see your point, and for all intents and purposes you could be correct. However in my years of experience in following the Pittsburgh Pirates baseball organization, and this especially pertains to the recent era, I take the quote "the city of Pittsburgh is going to be dissapointed with the pick." to mean we're going to go out and badly reach on somebody with the 4th pick. .


And, therein lies your fundemental problem. This organization is NOT the one you were watching for "years". It has had one draft so far, and by all accounts a very good one. And, one in which they "spent money"!

ZM


Ok. So tell me what the quote "the city of Pittsburgh is going to be dissapointed with the pick." means to you.


I think it means that this draft there isnt much top talent and they're letting fans know that a Pedro Alvarez type of player is not there this season...

A lot of people who follow the Pirates for some reason think that this revamping of the organization should have been a 3 week process...

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:03 pm 
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Alexandria Dukes wrote:
And you could very well be right. We've heard rumors and now this odd quote. Guess we know for sure next week. But what concerns me is the Pirates thinking after Strasburg and Ackley, the rest of the lot is nothing more than guys who would be 15-30 picks in a normal draft. So why not go ahead and ignore the guys slated to be picked in the top 10 and take someone projected in the 20's. In the Pirate's eyes, they would be getting equal talent to someone like Crow or Miller, but for significantly less.



I don't care where they're projected, again, just give me a kid that can throw in the mid 90's with consistency (a bunch of the HS pitchers can) or Donovan Tate and I'll sing Opie's praises for another draft well done.

I do not want a college arm that only hits 88 mph just because it's an experienced arm that will get to Pittsburgh faster. Unfortunately it looks like that's the direction they're heading.

It's all about the BPA

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:24 pm 
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omgardd wrote:

Ok. So tell me what the quote "the city of Pittsburgh is going to be dissapointed with the pick." means to you.


It means they won't get Strasborg, and no one else is worth the pay scale. That is pretty much it.

I'll be happy if they get Sano, and pass on the 1st round pick, and overpay lower in the draft for more Robbie Grossman types.

But, "the city of Pittsburgh is going to be disappoined with the pick".

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:18 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
omgardd wrote:

Ok. So tell me what the quote "the city of Pittsburgh is going to be dissapointed with the pick." means to you.


It means they won't get Strasborg, and no one else is worth the pay scale. That is pretty much it.

I'll be happy if they get Sano, and pass on the 1st round pick, and overpay lower in the draft for more Robbie Grossman types.

But, "the city of Pittsburgh is going to be disappoined with the pick".

ZM


It's going to be disapointing just because it is such a drop off after Stephen Strasburg.


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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:24 pm 
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Alexandria Dukes wrote:
I am not sure if many here follow the draft or not, but I believe it's next week. There's a lot of speculation on whom the Pirates should take considering there really isn't a solid #4 player hanging out there. But this thread isn't to debate who the Pirates should take, but rather to discuss the financial implications of their first pick and the draft and beyond. For me, I think there are picks they could make that signify they are looking to keep costs low on this draft. And there are picks they could make that show they aren't worried about high bonus demands or agents.

So basically, are there players you think could tip which direction the club is going? If they take Missouri pitcher Kyle Gibson, does that mean they're looking to spend as little as possible? Or if they go outside the top 20 of many pre-draft predictions, does that clearly indicate this? Or if they go with a high school guy many believe won't sign (Donovan Tate), does this prove they're willing to pony up whatever it takes to make this the best draft possible?

Thoughts?

Given the dearth of top quality talent out there this year, it might be a good idea to take a flyer on a high school kid who is not expected to sign, then lowball him. If he takes the offer, you have a bargain. If he turns it down, then you have pick number 5 next year to compensate you. Assuming that next year's draft is deeper (I don't know that it is, but this year's crop is said to be exceptionally thin), you'll end up with a more talented player.

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:28 pm 
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omgardd wrote:
Alexandria Dukes wrote:
omgardd wrote:
According to John Perrotto, (He's a respected Pirates beat reporter Wilton) and his conversation with the great Opie, PirateNation is going to be dissapointed with the draft pick this year.

http://www.piratesreport.com/page/conte ... l?nav=5008

Way to go fellas. If we draft soft tossers like Kyle Gibson or Mike Minor (who's a second round talent BTW) at 4, we'll surely be contenders in no time!

Seriously, if this team does not go out and draft a high school kid who can throw the ball 95 mph with regularity or Donovan Tate, then their idea of how they're trying to make the team better is lost to me.

I think that quote in the article can be a little misleading. We don't even know what the question was. So by disappointing does he mean it's not a big name like Pedro Alvarez or Stephen Strasburg? Could this just be a negotiating plow? So it's an interesting quote from the Pirates that could be interpreted several different ways.


I can certainly see your point, and for all intents and purposes you could be correct. However in my years of experience in following the Pittsburgh Pirates baseball organization, and this especially pertains to the recent era, I take the quote "the city of Pittsburgh is going to be dissapointed with the pick." to mean we're going to go out and badly reach on somebody with the 4th pick.

I don't think that's what it means at all I think it means, "The fourth best player available this year will suck compared to the fourth best player in most years."

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Sis might have something there. Draft and don't sign will make next year a better draft. Problem is that makes us wait still another year for contribution.

Sano might be the guy to spend the money on for the future. If there are few impact guys this year, we can't just waste it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:36 am 
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I am not a draft guru but Baseball America's Jim Callis thinks that the Pirates could consider Crow or Scheppers. I think one of these two would really go a long way answering questions about how serious they are because they will be expensive.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/dra ... 2#more-922

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:51 am 
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About a month ago I was discussing the Pirates and their past drafting with a former ML scouting director. He stressed that where a team can make it's mark is by finding guys in rounds 5-20 who can be developed. He felt the Bucs had not been good enough in that area.


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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:05 am 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
About a month ago I was discussing the Pirates and their past drafting with a former ML scouting director. He stressed that where a team can make it's mark is by finding guys in rounds 5-20 who can be developed. He felt the Bucs had not been good enough in that area.


I think that seems right. In Baseball vs. other sports you really can't depend on your top pick being a star. Last year people on this board wanted specific people (mostly high school kids) and I think that's exactly what they had in mind. I'd be fine w/ signing 3-5 mid picks above instead of one big name from a strategic point of view.

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:11 am 
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BostonBuc wrote:
I am not a draft guru but Baseball America's Jim Callis thinks that the Pirates could consider Crow or Scheppers. I think one of these two would really go a long way answering questions about how serious they are because they will be expensive.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/dra ... 2#more-922


Nope, won't be drafting Scheppers. Per MLB draft rules, he'd need to give permission to us to draft him again. He declined. It appears he's still pissed that Opie and Coondog lowballed him last year.

http://insidepittsburghsports.com/story ... him/11671/

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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:12 am 
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I wish i knew more about the MLB draft. I'm lost with most of the rules and players that aren't going to be top 10 picks.


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 Post subject: Re: The Draft
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:27 am 
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Yeah I can understand that. Certainly nothing like the NFL draft in which you might be able to safely predict the entire first round. Strasburg is going to the Nationals, Ackley is going to the Mariners. Donovan Tate is the only other can't miss prospect in the draft, but he's a Boras client who's asking for 6 mil, is already signed to play baseball and football at UNC and his heart might be with football and thus, he could go anywhere from 3-10. Beyond that it's a crapshoot.

My only hope is that the Pirates a) actually draft a player who deserves to be the 4th pick and not someone who'll sign cheaply just so we have a better shot at signing some 16 year old Dominican kid who may not even take our deal. b) draft a player and actually make an attempt to sign him, and not pull some silly smoke and mirrors show so that we end up with another pick in next years draft and just so we ensure that we have the money this year to sign some 16 year old Dominican kid who may not even take our deal. And c) draft a power arm with top of the rotation potential. This does not include Kyle Gibson and his 88 mph fastball and his #3 starter potential. If we insist on drafting a player who will get through the minors quickly, draft Aaron Crow.

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