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 Post subject: Fire Russell now !!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 12:38 pm 
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He has a record of 88-122 after losing to the really bad Astros last night, most clubs would at least be talking about a change. I would like to see someone from the past glory days on the bench that has a heartbeat. Maybe Phil Garner or Mike Easler.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Russell now !!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 12:45 pm 
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There's a new drumbeat. Not ready to go there yet, but in truth, not so enamered this year. I think the talent is better but results are not. Yes that includes Bay and Nady being gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Russell now !!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:27 am 
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piratefan1970 wrote:
He has a record of 88-122 after losing to the really bad Astros last night, most clubs would at least be talking about a change. I would like to see someone from the past glory days on the bench that has a heartbeat. Maybe Phil Garner or Mike Easler.

Yes, fire him. Because, you know, he keeps losing with such great players.

Get a grip.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Russell now !!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:13 am 
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Russell isn't a good manager but frankly, he's the best they can get.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Russell now !!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 2:12 pm 
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He is small market Johnnie, you all know that
Small market teams cannot compete with big markets clubs in terms of adding payroll or paying for talent.

Same goes for managers.
Russell is the kind of guy, who will be a company man, and just try to keep the team looking like a pro squad

I am just curious where he ranks in Manager's salaries, compared to the rest of the league's skippers.
There is probably a correlation between lowest paid managers vs overall team payroll.
Don't have it in front of me, but i have to guess SMJ is one of the 5 lowest paid managers in the league.
In contrast, the team's payroll is one of the 5 lowest in the bigs.
That is not by accident.
The Pirates will never be a winning club, with this guy at the control's.
But for now, i guess, he is the choice of the higher up's
I guess the word Accountabilty, does not apply to the manager , or his coaches(which i think are major league quality.
Not a lot of praises for Don Long this year, unlike last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Russell now !!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 4:44 pm 
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palushock wrote:
He is small market Johnnie, you all know that
Small market teams cannot compete with big markets clubs in terms of adding payroll or paying for talent.

Same goes for managers.
Russell is the kind of guy, who will be a company man, and just try to keep the team looking like a pro squad

I am just curious where he ranks in Manager's salaries, compared to the rest of the league's skippers.
There is probably a correlation between lowest paid managers vs overall team payroll.

There probably is. It's a good thing that there is little correlation between overall team payroll and winning, isn't it?

Quote:
Don't have it in front of me, but i have to guess SMJ is one of the 5 lowest paid managers in the league.
In contrast, the team's payroll is one of the 5 lowest in the bigs.
That is not by accident.
The Pirates will never be a winning club, with this guy at the control's.
But for now, i guess, he is the choice of the higher up's
I guess the word Accountabilty, does not apply to the manager , or his coaches(which i think are major league quality.
Not a lot of praises for Don Long this year, unlike last year.

Yes, fire the manager when his players are playing up to their abilities. Doesn't he know he's supposed to have a magic wand?

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Russell now !!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:59 am 
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Eric Bowser wrote:
Russell isn't a good manager but frankly, he's the best they can get.


This is all that needed to be said. Unless we would find a diamond in the rough as a manager, this is the best we can get.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Russell now !!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:10 pm 
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I could have told you he was terrible right off the bat.

He's too quiet, you can barely hear him in his interviews. He's too nice as well. But, those are all qualities Nutting wants in a manager.


Last edited by Nutting&Russell on Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: YEP, It's Russell's fault.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:35 pm 
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It's Russell's fault (along with Joe Kerrigan) that this starting rotation is worlds better than it was just a couple years ago.

It is Russell's fault that the Pirate defense is among the best in the league, where it had been among the worst in recent past.

It's Russell's fault that the baserunning has improved 1000%.

It's Russell's fault that the Bucs, while still having a losing record, are in most games, when just recently, you knew the Bucs were out of it by the third inning.

It's Russell's fault that the Bucs were completely forced to revamp their linuep, and have young players, with growing pains, at many positions.

Yeah, let's blame Russell because this team was so so bad, that he has not been able to turn them into instantaneous winners.

Fire Russell indeed!

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 Post subject: Re: YEP, It's Russell's fault.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:28 pm 
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Animal wrote:
It's Russell's fault that the baserunning has improved 1000%.

Are you watching the same Pirates I am? Perhaps the baserunning has improved, but if it has it's only gone for horrible to bad. Just off the top of my head I can think of numerous blunders made by Morgan, Sanchez, Moss, and Wilson.

But back to the point. I'm not a big fan of Russell's and don't believe he's a good manager. But on this club I'm not sure it matters. A hybrid of Jim Leyland, Chuck Tanner, and Danny Murtaugh couldn't turn this club into a winner. So if Russell is the right man to properly develop these guys, I have no problem with him. But if the Pirates do begin to build a contender, I'd like to see a guy who is a little better in game manager.


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 Post subject: Re: YEP, It's Russell's fault.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:49 pm 
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Alexandria Dukes wrote:
Animal wrote:
It's Russell's fault that the baserunning has improved 1000%.

Are you watching the same Pirates I am? Perhaps the baserunning has improved, but if it has it's only gone for horrible to bad. Just off the top of my head I can think of numerous blunders made by Morgan, Sanchez, Moss, and Wilson.

But back to the point. I'm not a big fan of Russell's and don't believe he's a good manager. But on this club I'm not sure it matters. A hybrid of Jim Leyland, Chuck Tanner, and Danny Murtaugh couldn't turn this club into a winner. So if Russell is the right man to properly develop these guys, I have no problem with him. But if the Pirates do begin to build a contender, I'd like to see a guy who is a little better in game manager.


I AM watching the same Pirates, and have been for years....and yes, even with the recent blunders, the baserunning HAS improved a ton, as has just about every aspect of Pirate Baseball. I am not sure if Russell is a good manager or not. I do know that a manager can only do so much with what he is given. Russell would look so much better if we had a couple of big boppers in the middle of the lineup. I know he would look like a much better manager if we had a bullpen that could be successful 9 out of 10 times.

I think motivation and working with the players is the most important aspect in a baseball manager. I think Russell is good in those respects. I thought Tracy was bad all the way around. I think McClendon had a lot of good qualities in a manager but had horrible, horrible players.

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 Post subject: Re: YEP, It's Russell's fault.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Animal wrote:
Alexandria Dukes wrote:
Animal wrote:
It's Russell's fault that the baserunning has improved 1000%.

Are you watching the same Pirates I am? Perhaps the baserunning has improved, but if it has it's only gone for horrible to bad. Just off the top of my head I can think of numerous blunders made by Morgan, Sanchez, Moss, and Wilson.

But back to the point. I'm not a big fan of Russell's and don't believe he's a good manager. But on this club I'm not sure it matters. A hybrid of Jim Leyland, Chuck Tanner, and Danny Murtaugh couldn't turn this club into a winner. So if Russell is the right man to properly develop these guys, I have no problem with him. But if the Pirates do begin to build a contender, I'd like to see a guy who is a little better in game manager.


I AM watching the same Pirates, and have been for years....and yes, even with the recent blunders, the baserunning HAS improved a ton, as has just about every aspect of Pirate Baseball. I am not sure if Russell is a good manager or not. I do know that a manager can only do so much with what he is given. Russell would look so much better if we had a couple of big boppers in the middle of the lineup. I know he would look like a much better manager if we had a bullpen that could be successful 9 out of 10 times.

I think motivation and working with the players is the most important aspect in a baseball manager. I think Russell is good in those respects. I thought Tracy was bad all the way around. I think McClendon had a lot of good qualities in a manager but had horrible, horrible players.

We will have to agree to disagree about the baserunning. But I'm in full agreement about the manager only being as good as his players. I've always said the manager gets too much credit for when they win and too much blame when they lose. I would think given the Pirate's starting rotation, almost any manager could be viewed as good if he was also give a solid bullpen and a couple of big hitters. Actually, I think they would just call him Tony LaRussa.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire Russell now !!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:10 pm 
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Say what you want about the baserunning, who cares? For the good he's improved the baserunning, his team improvement to horrible game managing ratio is about 1:8

Things that are Russell's fault and are the reason he's not a good manager are things like: today's lineup-starting Eric Hinske over Brandon Moss against a righty. Sitting Freddy and Little LaRoche in the middle of a hot streak. Continuing to mismanage the bullpen. Calling for a bunt with two outs. Continuing to leave Ian Snell in the rotation. Continuing to give significant playing time to Ramon Vazquez and Craig Monroe.

Russell is awful. Anyone that says he's good is probably worthy enough to win some douchebag tournament on some other message board somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: YEP, It's Russell's fault.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:36 pm 
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Alexandria Dukes wrote:
Animal wrote:
It's Russell's fault that the baserunning has improved 1000%.

Are you watching the same Pirates I am? Perhaps the baserunning has improved, but if it has it's only gone for horrible to bad. Just off the top of my head I can think of numerous blunders made by Morgan, Sanchez, Moss, and Wilson.

But back to the point. I'm not a big fan of Russell's and don't believe he's a good manager. But on this club I'm not sure it matters. A hybrid of Jim Leyland, Chuck Tanner, and Danny Murtaugh couldn't turn this club into a winner. So if Russell is the right man to properly develop these guys, I have no problem with him. But if the Pirates do begin to build a contender, I'd like to see a guy who is a little better in game manager.

What in game blunders has Russell made, in your opinion? I don't see where he has many decent options, myself. The only real blunder I can think of off of the top of my head was the game when he let Duke throw 130+ pitches.

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Last edited by sisyphus on Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Russell now !!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:41 pm 
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omgardd wrote:
Say what you want about the baserunning, who cares? For the good he's improved the baserunning, his team improvement to horrible game managing ratio is about 1:8

Things that are Russell's fault and are the reason he's not a good manager are things like: today's lineup-starting Eric Hinske over Brandon Moss against a righty. Sitting Freddy and Little LaRoche in the middle of a hot streak. Continuing to mismanage the bullpen. Calling for a bunt with two outs. Continuing to leave Ian Snell in the rotation. Continuing to give significant playing time to Ramon Vazquez and Craig Monroe.

Russell is awful. Anyone that says he's good is probably worthy enough to win some douchebag tournament on some other message board somewhere.

Some of your points I won't argue with, and one or two I can agree with, though I don't think that they're all that important. But mismanaging the bullpen? THIS bullpen? This bullpen sucks. There is no proper way to manage it. All you can do is send a guy out there and hope that it's his day to throw strikes for a change.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Russell now !!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:49 pm 
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His biggest flaw in my opinion is his managing of players as has already been said. I really think he has made some lousy choices in starting and resting players. In that regard, Sanchez, Wilson, Andy L. all rested when they should have played. And Moss needs to play more often.

Many other glaring weaknesses on this team so JR is not the major problem here.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:20 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
His biggest flaw in my opinion is his managing of players as has already been said. I really think he has made some lousy choices in starting and resting players. In that regard, Sanchez, Wilson, Andy L. all rested when they should have played. And Moss needs to play more often.

Many other glaring weaknesses on this team so JR is not the major problem here.


Many complain he lets the starters go too long, then some of these same posters complain when the bullpen blows it.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire Russell now !!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:17 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
omgardd wrote:
Say what you want about the baserunning, who cares? For the good he's improved the baserunning, his team improvement to horrible game managing ratio is about 1:8

Things that are Russell's fault and are the reason he's not a good manager are things like: today's lineup-starting Eric Hinske over Brandon Moss against a righty. Sitting Freddy and Little LaRoche in the middle of a hot streak. Continuing to mismanage the bullpen. Calling for a bunt with two outs. Continuing to leave Ian Snell in the rotation. Continuing to give significant playing time to Ramon Vazquez and Craig Monroe.

Russell is awful. Anyone that says he's good is probably worthy enough to win some douchebag tournament on some other message board somewhere.

Some of your points I won't argue with, and one or two I can agree with, though I don't think that they're all that important. But mismanaging the bullpen? THIS bullpen? This bullpen sucks. There is no proper way to manage it. All you can do is send a guy out there and hope that it's his day to throw strikes for a change.


Yes, you're correct, the bullpen does suck. I was referring to Russell's tendency to rely on the same 3 arms in the pen day after day after day.

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 Post subject: Re: Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:27 am 
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Animal wrote:
Substitute2 wrote:
His biggest flaw in my opinion is his managing of players as has already been said. I really think he has made some lousy choices in starting and resting players. In that regard, Sanchez, Wilson, Andy L. all rested when they should have played. And Moss needs to play more often.

Many other glaring weaknesses on this team so JR is not the major problem here.


Many complain he lets the starters go too long, then some of these same posters complain when the bullpen blows it.

When the bullpen blows it, they're complaining because the bullpen stinks. When starters go too long they're complaining because they are risking injuries to a team strength.

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