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 Post subject: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:02 pm 
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Tampa Bay just lost their 2nd baseman, Akinori Iwamura, for the season and dont have one steady 2nd baseman to fill in...

What do you think Freddy could net? What would you like to see in return for him if he were traded to Tampa?

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:06 pm 
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I think you would have to demand starting pitching from their system. I'm not sure if they would part with any of it for Freddy...maybe they give up Niemann.


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 Post subject: STOP!!!!!!
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:08 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Tampa Bay just lost their 2nd baseman, Akinori Iwamura, for the season and dont have one steady 2nd baseman to fill in...

What do you think Freddy could net? What would you like to see in return for him if he were traded to Tampa?


STOP TRADING OUR QUALITY PLAYERS!

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:42 pm 
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I'm all for trading Freddy, but I imagine other teams will find that vesting option even more unappealing late in the season, possibly in the middle of a pennant race, than the Pirates are finding it now. I wouldn't expect much in return.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:01 pm 
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Really? You wouldn't expect much for a former batting champ who is hitting over .320, is healthy, plays a good 2nd, and has a contract year left?

Wow, you're tough man.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:39 pm 
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I think he has real value, but I'd like to keep Freddy.

What I want to know is why JR rested(?) him today. My goodness, he was 10 for 14 in his last three games. You just simply don't rest him when there is no game Thursday anyway. Is he so old he needs two days in a row off? Right in the middle of hot hitting this last week?

This is the second time he has rested him when he shouldn't have this season.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:42 pm 
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I haven't heard any talk around here about replacing Iwamura, however Jason Bartlett, the Rays SS went on the disabled list yesterday, so perhaps the FO will be talking. If I'm NH, I would inquire about Niemann, Wade Davis and Reid Brignac, but I'm not sure if the Rays are desperate enough to trade them.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:48 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Really? You wouldn't expect much for a former batting champ who is hitting over .320, is healthy, plays a good 2nd, and has a contract year left?

Wow, you're tough man.

ZM


I'm expecting "Quality Depth" in return for Freddy:

Two minor league "prospects" who will never pan out, two career .240 hitters with absolutely NO POWER. And Two Babbling talking heads spinning webs and storys, and apologies, and pipe dreams, and a thousand other excuses for an owner who perennially spends less than 30 other major league teams, pockets more profit, and hides from the media, on a day to day, year to year, season to season, basis.

DAMN RIGHT IT'S BOB NUTTINGS FAULT.


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:00 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Really? You wouldn't expect much for a former batting champ who is hitting over .320, is healthy, plays a good 2nd, and has a contract year left?

Wow, you're tough man.

ZM

Former batting champ. Injury prone. On the wrong side of 30. Losing range like a Yugo leaks oil. Draws walks in <5% of his PAs. And a vesting option that kicks in at 635 PAs that a team that's interested in him as a temporary solution (like the Rays) likely would prefer to not pick up. Yeah, I think all those things moot Freddy's very nice contact abilities.

But he "puts wood on the ball" and "isn't afraid to get dirty." Maybe someone will "give up the farm" for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:03 pm 
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At the risk of you attacking me here, I think it is far to simple to lay it all on Nutting.

Sure, if we had Yankee, Boston money, we should spend much more. Many posters here have pointed out the complexity of our small market situation and the plan to become competitive in the future. If one steps back and looks at the total picture, it's hard to take the position that we are not doing what should be done to become successful. I am not going to repeat the long standing comments to that end except to say I agree. If you think that indicates I'm drinking the Kool-Aide, it's ok with me as long as it's not sugar added(coated). Since we are such a limited budget team, perhaps Kool-Aide is the appropriate analogy.

You need to think bigger then Nutting is at fault period.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:13 pm 
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Before the conspiracy theories get fired up again...Sanchez is leading the team in plate appearances. Russell sat him for the exact same reason he sat him the last time....to give him two straight days off. Period. Leyland did it all the time and everyone thought he was the master of keeping regulars fresh and the bench involved....and if we trade Sanchez, who is going to play there? Young? Shouldn't he play there once in awhile then?


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:29 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
At the risk of you attacking me here, I think it is far to simple to lay it all on Nutting.

Sure, if we had Yankee, Boston money, we should spend much more. Many posters here have pointed out the complexity of our small market situation and the plan to become competitive in the future. If one steps back and looks at the total picture, it's hard to take the position that we are not doing what should be done to become successful. I am not going to repeat the long standing comments to that end except to say I agree. If you think that indicates I'm drinking the Kool-Aide, it's ok with me as long as it's not sugar added(coated). Since we are such a limited budget team, perhaps Kool-Aide is the appropriate analogy.

You need to think bigger then Nutting is at fault period.


Bulls**t: Go high enough, and you get to ONE man.

Bob Nutting has had the biggest role in this franchise for quite awhile now.

Bob Nutting is the man who refuses to write checks.

The City Of Milwaukee: Is that a 'small market"??????

Milwaukee writes checks, pays players, much more than Bob Nutting, and Milwaukee sits atop the division.

Bob Nutting spends among the three lowest payrolls every year.

Bob Nutting makes alot of money.

And I'm here to tell the truth. Ya know why I'm right?

SEVENTEEN CONSECUTIVE LOSING SEASONS.

THAT'S WHY.


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:37 am 
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Rod Serling wrote:
Bulls**t: Go high enough, and you get to ONE man.

Bob Nutting has had the biggest role in this franchise for quite awhile now.

By a while, you mean 2 years, right? Because that's how long it's been: 2 years.

Quote:
Bob Nutting is the man who refuses to write checks.

Pedro Alvarez, Robbie Grossman, Quentin Miller, and Jack Wilson all beg to differ.

Quote:
The City Of Milwaukee: Is that a 'small market"??????

Milwaukee writes checks, pays players, much more than Bob Nutting, and Milwaukee sits atop the division.

Right, and of course they bought all of their players. Oh wait, no they didn't! Tell me, who's the big-ticket free agent currently playing for the Brewers, hmm? Jeff Suppan, at $12M? A lot of good those big bucks are doing.

Quote:
Bob Nutting spends among the three lowest payrolls every year.

So? Do you see anyone worth spending the money on? No point in spending money just for the sake of doing so.

Quote:
Bob Nutting makes alot of money.

That's a problem?

Quote:
And I'm here to tell the truth. Ya know why I'm right?

SEVENTEEN CONSECUTIVE LOSING SEASONS.

THAT'S WHY.

Oh, Preacher, you've helped me see the light! Tell me, how much money do you need so you can heal again? :roll:

Constantly preaching that you tell "the truth" tells me that you don't know how to support your own arguments. As a wise man once said, "methinks he doth protest too much."

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:45 am 
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It's your problem that you worship Bob Nutting and his loser product.

No real Pirate fan will ever support that owner.

How's your hero doing with the WINS AND LOSSES PAL?

That's what I thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:54 am 
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Rod Serling wrote:
It's your problem that you worship Bob Nutting and his loser product.

No real Pirate fan will ever support that owner.

How's your hero doing with the WINS AND LOSSES PAL?

That's what I thought.

He's not my hero. He's a team owner, for fuck's sake. He just happens to be doing the right things towards getting a moribund franchise back to contention. Sometimes you have to deal with some losing in order to get back to winning. Just ask the Cleveland Indians and Oakland A's.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:00 am 
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Willton wrote:
Rod Serling wrote:
It's your problem that you worship Bob Nutting and his loser product.

No real Pirate fan will ever support that owner.

How's your hero doing with the WINS AND LOSSES PAL?

That's what I thought.

He's not my hero. He's a team owner, for fuck's sake. He just happens to be doing the right things towards getting a moribund franchise back to contention. Sometimes you have to deal with some losing in order to get back to winning. Just ask the Cleveland Indians and Oakland A's.


Wrong again.

Nothing Bob Nutting has done has resulted in winning.

The record proves it.

Argument over.


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:29 am 
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Rod Serling wrote:
Willton wrote:
Rod Serling wrote:
It's your problem that you worship Bob Nutting and his loser product.

No real Pirate fan will ever support that owner.

How's your hero doing with the WINS AND LOSSES PAL?

That's what I thought.

He's not my hero. He's a team owner, for fuck's sake. He just happens to be doing the right things towards getting a moribund franchise back to contention. Sometimes you have to deal with some losing in order to get back to winning. Just ask the Cleveland Indians and Oakland A's.


Wrong again.

Nothing Bob Nutting has done has resulted in winning.

The record proves it.

Argument over.

Winning has not resulted yet. All the record proves is that prior efforts were ineffective, which they were. That same verdict cannot be given to the current regime's efforts yet, as the fruits of their labor have not yet been born. Rome wasn't built in a day, Rod.

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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:47 am 
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Willton wrote:
Rome wasn't built in a day, Rod.

Nutting's distant predecessor, Nuttingtini, was one of the Senators who stabbed Julius Caesar. "The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but in the nearest Nutting."


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:33 am 
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Rod Serling wrote:
It's your problem that you worship Bob Nutting and his loser product.

No real Pirate fan will ever support that owner.

How's your hero doing with the WINS AND LOSSES PAL?

That's what I thought.


I didn't know Nutting could throw or hit a curve ball? Thats news to me!!!

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Freddy to Tampa?
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:39 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
I think he has real value, but I'd like to keep Freddy.

What I want to know is why JR rested(?) him today. My goodness, he was 10 for 14 in his last three games. You just simply don't rest him when there is no game Thursday anyway. Is he so old he needs two days in a row off? Right in the middle of hot hitting this last week?

This is the second time he has rested him when he shouldn't have this season.



I wondered the same thing. I heard a pregame show interview with Russell and he said he knew he would get questioned for the decision, but explained it anyway. He said the decision was made and discussed with Freddy (and Jack) that each of them would need a day off. Initially, they were going to rest Freddy on Monday, but in the end decided (along with Freddy), that Wednesday would be a better day, with the off day on Thursday. I guess when we get back going tomorrow, we have something like 17 straight. So the decision was made before Freddy had the hot couple days, and they just stuck with the original plan.

Now, something I have not seen questioned. WHAT IN THE HELL was Freddy doing in the 9th inning?

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