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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:16 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
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While the spelling police is out...I'm pretty certain the man leading the charge is named Mahoney!!!

[img]080626132715.jpg[/img]


Just as long as Sargeant Hulka is still our big toe.


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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:39 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Alexandria Dukes wrote:
Despite the odd and entertaining turn this thread took, I think the Gorzelanny situation is interesting. Now, I'm not sure the Pirates were showcasing him for a trade by leaving him in, but I think there is some merit to leaving him in to see what he could do even though it may not have been the best strategic move. But I don't think it had anything to do with a potential trade. Gorzelanny (am I spelling it correctly?) has very little trade value currently and allowing him to pitch an addition inning or two isn't going to change that. I don't know if he'll ever duplicate his 2007 success, but any thought on trading him right now should be dismissed as the Pirates would be selling low. He's still a relatively young pitcher with some talent so the Pirates would be best served finding out what they have in him as that is more valuable than anything they would likely net in a deal.

So in my opinion, it appears they're giving Gorzelanny an opportunity to pitch against major league hitters. That's a good thing. If he's successful, I think they have hopes of re-inserting him back into the starting rotation. Not only is that where he's had more success and will be properly utilized, it's not as if the Pirates need another left handed reliever. And as soon as Yates and Hansen are off the DL, they'll need to move a couple of guys.

(for the record, I have not proof read any of this and would appreciate ya'll overlooking any spelling or grammatical errors as I think my points still stand)


I think Alexandria Dukes makes some excellent points here. It's such a shame that he so overused the passive voice in making them.


Gorzo has had ample opportunity to showcase against big league hitters, I'm not sure I buy into the argument that somehow pitching through the 8th would be indicative of his "potential". I mean there is a list a mile long and a mile wide of guys who pitched well for 2/3 of an inning.

For that matter, I'd like to see a little showcasing of Veal.


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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:52 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:

Argentum -
Admittedly I did not see the game. I was watching the little dots on my Blackberry and catching bits and pieces on the radio between errands. And I stand by my point that, if Gorzo doesn't have it, the buck stops with JR but Kerrigan is the pitching coach and knows his pitchers better than anyone (including JR). It is Kerrigan's job to go to JR and say "I'm calling the bullpen, they are getting Grabow (or Burnett) up, Gorzo's done, get him outta there, Chavez will get Zimmerman, and Grabow will get Dunn."
Any criticism of how the staff is being handled cannot get past Kerrigan as well.


Fair enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 5:13 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
Alexandria Dukes wrote:
Despite the odd and entertaining turn this thread took, I think the Gorzelanny situation is interesting. Now, I'm not sure the Pirates were showcasing him for a trade by leaving him in, but I think there is some merit to leaving him in to see what he could do even though it may not have been the best strategic move. But I don't think it had anything to do with a potential trade. Gorzelanny (am I spelling it correctly?) has very little trade value currently and allowing him to pitch an addition inning or two isn't going to change that. I don't know if he'll ever duplicate his 2007 success, but any thought on trading him right now should be dismissed as the Pirates would be selling low. He's still a relatively young pitcher with some talent so the Pirates would be best served finding out what they have in him as that is more valuable than anything they would likely net in a deal.

So in my opinion, it appears they're giving Gorzelanny an opportunity to pitch against major league hitters. That's a good thing. If he's successful, I think they have hopes of re-inserting him back into the starting rotation. Not only is that where he's had more success and will be properly utilized, it's not as if the Pirates need another left handed reliever. And as soon as Yates and Hansen are off the DL, they'll need to move a couple of guys.

(for the record, I have not proof read any of this and would appreciate ya'll overlooking any spelling or grammatical errors as I think my points still stand)


I think Alexandria Dukes makes some excellent points here. It's such a shame that he so overused the passive voice in making them.


Gorzo has had ample opportunity to showcase against big league hitters, I'm not sure I buy into the argument that somehow pitching through the 8th would be indicative of his "potential". I mean there is a list a mile long and a mile wide of guys who pitched well for 2/3 of an inning.

For that matter, I'd like to see a little showcasing of Veal.

I didn't mean to imply the Pirates would only look at last night's performance by Gorzelanny in order to get an evaluation. Only suggesting giving him opportunities that may be in contrast of conventional baseball strategy may be their thinking. Personally, I'd let him start.


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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 5:14 pm 
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In AAA, yes. He has not pitched better than any starter we've had so far this year.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 7:09 pm 
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It is amazing this well thought out post i had turned into this freaking mess.
I have been posting on this board for a few months now, and this is the first time anyone has called me small minded because of dislike for the current pirates manager.

I disagree with tons of people on this sight, but i never(until last night) had the situation turn into a war of name calling.

So who ever this idiot from Smallville or whatever town he is hiding in, next time you reply, just give your opinion, and keep the name calling out of it. I do not need or feel like getting in a pissing war with you.

Maybe the moderator of this board should step in , and declare a ruling on this.
I post comments to hopefully draw criticism, or agreement, ON THE SUBJECT, not on me personally, this dude went over the line.

I have been a loyal devoted, and interested fan of this team since 1971, so i think my opinions and points have some meaning to them.

I watch every game that is possible for me to watch(unless it is an afternoon sat game or one that the extra innings does not cover).
I want this team to win as much as anyone, even though, i am having a problem with the manager at the present time.

Keep the comments towards the team, not towards me.
I am out, for now.


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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 7:41 pm 
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Who is name calling? I happen to believe that your criticism (and name calling) of Russell is SMALL MINDED. You make some ridiculous arguments just to slam Russell.

Then, when I called you on it, you made fun of my city, and of my spelling, when yours was much, much worse. So I called you on that....and now you cry about it.

And if you want to compare me to that guy from smallville, then that would just be SUPER!

Lighten up! Have fun! Enjoy life.

Oh, and by the way, if you have been a Bucco fan since '71, you have seen some great teams, many division winners, and a couple of world championships. I went to my first game at Forbes Field in '69, and have been hooked ever since.

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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 1:41 am 
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Bottom line palushock:

If you've consistently criticized the manager for going by the book, then you've forfeited the right to criticize when he doesn't. Expect to be called out for your hypocrisy. And the notion that they were showcasing Gorzo for a trade is absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 3:48 am 
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Jack Round Tripper wrote:
Bottom line palushock:

If you've consistently criticized the manager for going by the book, then you've forfeited the right to criticize when he doesn't. Expect to be called out for your hypocrisy. And the notion that they were showcasing Gorzo for a trade is absurd.


In some cases you have to go by the book. Leaving T G into face Zimmerman(lefty vs righty) is not going by the book, IMO. That was a case where he should have gone by the Book, brought in the rh, and roll the dice.
Pinch hitting J Vasquez for La Roche was going by the BOOK, i guess, if you feel the need to have a batter standing left handed(no matter what La roche has done so far in this game) , to face the rh closer.
I strongly feel both moves were wrong, but i could live with the Vasquez move a little easier.
So, you see, i criticize him(and will continue to do so), as long as he continues to make bone headed decisions.
You call me a hypocrite, but apparently you don't know what that words means if you are pointing it towards me.
My stance has not changed on SMJ, and probably never will, as long as he is in charge.
I think a hypocrite, is someone who plays both sides of the fence, and takes whichever side suits him the best.
I don't see how that applies to me, since i am not a firm believer that the BOOk must be followed to the letter. Sometimes it is just obvious, case in point lefty reliever (in his 2nd inning) facing probably the hottest rh batter in the league,(at least in the last month).

You really think showcasing TG is absurd huh?.
The team just picked up 2 more guys(starters , i may add). Maybe these rumors with Seattle with Jack Wilson also contained another piece or two.

I think the White Sox starting pitching is kind of in a flux, don't you think there might be something brewing with them possibly?

I heard Ken Harrelson stating that in his 25 years with the organization, they have the most talent in the minors now than ever before.

Is TG from the Chicago, Illinois area?
There could be something brewing with the Pirates roster before the team leaves the State of Illinois.


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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 9:46 am 
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Jack Round Tripper wrote:
Bottom line palushock:

If you've consistently criticized the manager for going by the book, then you've forfeited the right to criticize when he doesn't. Expect to be called out for your hypocrisy. And the notion that they were showcasing Gorzo for a trade is absurd.



BINGO!

That's what I hate about so many Pirate fans. They say one thing in one situation then something else in another. Nothing is set in stone. I like when a manager goes against the book because of a gut feeling. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. All in all, I think Russell has done a good job with this team. Do some of his decisions frustrate me? Absolutely. Do some of his decisions make me scratch my head, then see them work out? Absolutely again.

A message to small minded or ANY poster, including myself. Don't give your opinions if you don't want them criticized sometimes.

That's all I got!

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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:47 am 
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Animal wrote:
Jack Round Tripper wrote:
Bottom line palushock:

If you've consistently criticized the manager for going by the book, then you've forfeited the right to criticize when he doesn't. Expect to be called out for your hypocrisy. And the notion that they were showcasing Gorzo for a trade is absurd.



BINGO!

That's what I hate about so many Pirate fans. They say one thing in one situation then something else in another. Nothing is set in stone. I like when a manager goes against the book because of a gut feeling. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. All in all, I think Russell has done a good job with this team. Do some of his decisions frustrate me? Absolutely. Do some of his decisions make me scratch my head, then see them work out? Absolutely again.

A message to small minded or ANY poster, including myself. Don't give your opinions if you don't want them criticized sometimes.

That's all I got!

All in all, I think Russell has done a good job with this team.
You really believe that huh?. If that is the case, you have no idea what makes a good manager.
I don't mind being criticized, but there is no reason to convey your response, while dropping negative comments designed to personally attack me.
He is not a good manager, post a poll on this site, and i am sure the results would tend to say he should go.
If you read, what i write, i have mentioned the word SITUATION when i describe going or not going by the BOOK.
Bunting one of your hottest hitters, with no outs and runners on 1st and 2nd is going by the book, but a dumb move BECAUSE the 8th place hitter was up.
Different spot in the batting order, i would have no problem with that.
Leaving the lefty in to face the righty, after already given up 2 hits, is not going by the book, but the situation says bring in the righty. He did, 2 batters 2 late.
You can be critical of my comments, all you want, that i have no problem with.
I do have a problem when a verbal assault takes place on me, because you have a personal love affair with SMJ.


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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:58 am 
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Quote:
think a hypocrite, is someone who plays both sides of the fence, and takes whichever side suits him the best.
I don't see how that applies to me


So far in this thread you've:

Called out the manager who you always say follows the "book" too much, the time that he goes against it.

Called out someone for using bad grammar when your own was proven to be just as bad.

At one point whined that the moderator should step in about name-calling and attacks after you had compared someone's intellect to that of a two-year old retard.

Still don't see how it applies to you???


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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 12:27 pm 
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If theres a lefty in the bullpen that should be able to get right handed hitters out, you'd think it would be Gorzo considering he's been a starter his whole career!!!

Geez, give it a fucking rest...

If some of you dont like the opinions given here, no one is holding a gun to your head...Go somewhere else if you dont like it...

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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Ain't it the truth!


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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:14 pm 
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I can only speak for myself, as just one of the moderators, Palushock, but I believe that your initial reply to Animal was intemperate; needlessly offensive; and, ultimately, defeating to your own cause.
As the one who initiated the name-calling and personal attacks, it is hypocritical of you to complain when you get a 'come-backer'.
Your dissatisfaction with the development of the thread also confirms my initial view that Wilton's, somewhat pompous, suggestion, that the rest of us were missing 'irony', was fallacious.

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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:55 pm 
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Bertie, you do have a way with words my friend.


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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:55 am 
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Bertie wrote:
Your dissatisfaction with the development of the thread also confirms my initial view that Wilton's, somewhat pompous, suggestion, that the rest of us were missing 'irony', was fallacious.

Image
What is lost on palushock, Alex?

ImageImage


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 Post subject: Re: Winning wasn't the priority tonight, showcasing was
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:09 am 
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Great Post BucFan!

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