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 Post subject: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:34 am 
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I guess John Russell is breathing a sigh of relief right now, after acutally failing in giving this game to Washington.
With all the Russell backers citing his bunting strategy during game 1(laroche with 2 on and o out), how does this guy bring the closer, who is coming back from pain in his elbow, to enter a game with a 6 run lead.

Did he even bother to think, the next night, if the team is ahead, it might not be by 6 runs, therefore a more useful spot for your closer to appear in?.
Besides the fact the extra night/day of rest could be only beneficial to Capps , who he knows all to well, has had a tender arm recently.

Where was the logic trotting him out to pitch in a 6 run ninth inning lead?.
I am sure there were other options.
Maybe leaving Gorzellany in to pitch for more than 1 batter, and leave the 9th inning to Grabow, or Meek.
This guy is a symbol of the manager a small market team employs.
A manager put in this situation usally gets congrats, for doing the best he could with what he has to work with.
Same should go on the other side of the ledger. The team does the best it can, with what they have as a leader. In this case i am talking about Russell's overall strategy as a manager.
He kills too many situtations , by playing old school, and leaving his pitchers in just a batter or 2 , too long.
I guess the Pirates will do the best they can, as long as this guy is calling the shots.
He shows no emotions, and has it backwards on what calls to argue, and what calls to let slide.

Small market Johnny.
Hey if the roster can get that label, why can't the manager.?


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:10 am 
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I wholeheartedly agree with your comments. I've come to realize this season that Simple John is an awful game manager, however you've clearly come to the wrong place if you're looking for others besides me and maybe 2 or 3 others to back you up. Welcome to Bizarro World, where according to the general population, down is up, left is right, the Pirates have a bright future, and John Russell is a good manager.

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Last edited by omgardd on Wed May 20, 2009 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:05 am 
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omgardd wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree with your comments. I've come to release this season that Simple John is an awful game manager, however you've clearly come to the wrong place if you're looking for others besides me and maybe 2 or 3 others to back you up. Welcome to Bizarro World, where according to the general population, down is up, left is right, the Pirates have a bright future, and John Russell is a good manager.


John Russell isn't a good manager and it isn't just because the Pirates are a bad team, but i do think the future is getting better. It isn't bright yet and i don't even agree with Baseball America or whoever it was that ranked the Pirates minor leagues 12th overall. We have too many holes still to fill in the minors before the Pirates start looking good. Also to note is that on this winning streak we played 2 of the worst teams in baseball, in the Rockies and Nationals. If we do well in Chicago and walk out with a winning record against the Cubs and Whitesox then i will start saying the future of our major league team is bright. Sometimes it isn't just pure talent that wins games, it's team chemistry. If it was pure talent the Yankees would crush everybody else, and the Rays would be horrible.


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:05 am 
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Russell makes mistakes but he does some things right too.


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:09 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
Russell makes mistakes but he does some things right too.


The double switch was the first good thing i remember him doing, and starting Monroe against Hannan tonight should be a good move also.


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:35 am 
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I'll defend Russell on the other night when Capps went in, up by six, in the 9th. Capps had been warming up for some time and the Buccos were only up three. The Pirates got three very quick runs after that, not giving them any time to warm anyone else. A pinch hitter was used so the Pirates had to switch pitchers and Capps was the only one warm. No harm, no foul.

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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:59 am 
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IA Pirate wrote:
I'll defend Russell on the other night when Capps went in, up by six, in the 9th. Capps had been warming up for some time and the Buccos were only up three. The Pirates got three very quick runs after that, not giving them any time to warm anyone else. A pinch hitter was used so the Pirates had to switch pitchers and Capps was the only one warm. No harm, no foul.


Apologist. Enabler.
Don't ever try to find a "reason" why something may have occurred. Absolutely unacceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:09 am 
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You know, someone once posted some sort of analysis here that concluded managers make very little difference in the course of a year- something like 5 wins or losses MAX in a season.

John Russell isn't the reason we'll be missing the playoffs this year.

(Not signing Adam Dunn is... :lol: )


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:49 pm 
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BBF wrote:
You know, someone once posted some sort of analysis here that concluded managers make very little difference in the course of a year- something like 5 wins or losses MAX in a season.

John Russell isn't the reason we'll be missing the playoffs this year.

(Not signing Adam Dunn is... :lol: )


Nobody is to blame for why we will miss the playoffs this year. I'm just hoping we don't finish in the basement of the division. Russell still isn't a good manager. He is terrible managing the bullpen.


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:50 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
I'll defend Russell on the other night when Capps went in, up by six, in the 9th. Capps had been warming up for some time and the Buccos were only up three. The Pirates got three very quick runs after that, not giving them any time to warm anyone else. A pinch hitter was used so the Pirates had to switch pitchers and Capps was the only one warm. No harm, no foul.


I disagree. If he had skipped him in this outting he would have been able to pitch last night, and we wouldn't have had to go to extra innings.


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:01 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
I disagree. If he had skipped him in this outting he would have been able to pitch last night, and we wouldn't have had to go to extra innings.

That's assuming he doesn't give up a run which he did on Monday night.


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:26 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
Russell still isn't a good manager. He is terrible managing the bullpen.


Not arguing this point at all. I've stated that I disagree with many of his decisions. My point is that if you made a list of all the things that need to be fixed with this team, JR isn't at the top of the list. The gnashing of teeth that occurs over whether Gorzo or Burnett should pitch the 9th inning is meaningless. Perhaps it is because I assume that Russell won't be the one guiding the ship when it really matters anyways. Maybe that is an erroneous assumption.


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:29 pm 
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Who cares of Capps pitched while up 6 runs? The guy was/is still shaking off some obvious rust. I'd rather have him pitch in those sorts of situations and give up one or two runs and still win the game, than have him come in during a save situation and blow the save and a possible win. As much as I like the guy as a player and as a person, he is not an elite closer anymore because he simply is not blowing people away with his stuff anymore. I do not feel as confident in Capps coming in during a close game. I haven't felt that way since his injury last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:04 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Colin21 wrote:
Russell still isn't a good manager. He is terrible managing the bullpen.


Not arguing this point at all. I've stated that I disagree with many of his decisions. My point is that if you made a list of all the things that need to be fixed with this team, JR isn't at the top of the list. The gnashing of teeth that occurs over whether Gorzo or Burnett should pitch the 9th inning is meaningless. Perhaps it is because I assume that Russell won't be the one guiding the ship when it really matters anyways. Maybe that is an erroneous assumption.


I'm a big fan of Burnett and i even knew he shouldn't have been in for the 9th.


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:09 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
I'll defend Russell on the other night when Capps went in, up by six, in the 9th. Capps had been warming up for some time and the Buccos were only up three. The Pirates got three very quick runs after that, not giving them any time to warm anyone else. A pinch hitter was used so the Pirates had to switch pitchers and Capps was the only one warm. No harm, no foul.


I disagree. If he had skipped him in this outting he would have been able to pitch last night, and we wouldn't have had to go to extra innings.


He might have been able to pitch lastnight if he hadnt thrown 23 pitches Monday...but you dont know if the team would have won in regulation, Capps is finding himself...plus with a bullpen and defense like the Nationals and a team like the Pirates, that have no hope of winning this season, you can gamble a little bit...

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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:12 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Perhaps it is because I assume that Russell won't be the one guiding the ship when it really matters anyways. Maybe that is an erroneous assumption.


That was brought up last year, I even think one of the sports guys in Pittsburgh said that too, possibly Rocco?

You have a lot of young guys on this team and you cant be Lou Pinnella day in and day out, getting on these guys...you'll eventually end up losing the team's trust...

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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:29 pm 
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cappscrew138 wrote:
Who cares of Capps pitched while up 6 runs? The guy was/is still shaking off some obvious rust. I'd rather have him pitch in those sorts of situations and give up one or two runs and still win the game, than have him come in during a save situation and blow the save and a possible win. As much as I like the guy as a player and as a person, he is not an elite closer anymore because he simply is not blowing people away with his stuff anymore. I do not feel as confident in Capps coming in during a close game. I haven't felt that way since his injury last year.


You rather have him pitch in 6 run games than 1 run one's?
Last time i checked the definition of a closer is to finish the team off in their last at bat, preferably to SAVE the win.
How many times do you see the CLOSER come into pitch the last inning of a game which his team up by more than 4 runs?
Give up?, here's the answer, practically never.
Don't forget to mix in the part where the guy didn't pitch for a week because of a SLIGHT elbow /shoulder/arm problem.

You want him to work out his rust?, screw that.
His job is to shake hands with his team after a hard earned victory, not a laugher.

If Capp's is hurt, then place him on the shelf for a few weeks. Working in those non save situations brings no benefit to him or the team, in my opinion.
Would you have rather had him come in Monday with that lead?, or last night, with a 1 run lead?
With a healthy Capps, answer no.2 is the correct 1.


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:39 pm 
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palushock wrote:
cappscrew138 wrote:
Who cares of Capps pitched while up 6 runs? The guy was/is still shaking off some obvious rust. I'd rather have him pitch in those sorts of situations and give up one or two runs and still win the game, than have him come in during a save situation and blow the save and a possible win. As much as I like the guy as a player and as a person, he is not an elite closer anymore because he simply is not blowing people away with his stuff anymore. I do not feel as confident in Capps coming in during a close game. I haven't felt that way since his injury last year.


You rather have him pitch in 6 run games than 1 run one's?
Last time i checked the definition of a closer is to finish the team off in their last at bat, preferably to SAVE the win.
How many times do you see the CLOSER come into pitch the last inning of a game which his team up by more than 4 runs?
Give up?, here's the answer, practically never.
Don't forget to mix in the part where the guy didn't pitch for a week because of a SLIGHT elbow /shoulder/arm problem.

You want him to work out his rust?, screw that.
His job is to shake hands with his team after a hard earned victory, not a laugher.

If Capp's is hurt, then place him on the shelf for a few weeks. Working in those non save situations brings no benefit to him or the team, in my opinion.
Would you have rather had him come in Monday with that lead?, or last night, with a 1 run lead?
With a healthy Capps, answer no.2 is the correct 1.


When your closer has an ERA of 7.62, you have one more K than BB's, your WHIP is 2.15, and you have a straight fastball...

His last 3 save oppurtunities...2 of them were 3 run leads (2 saves), and the other was a 1 run lead (blown save)...

Since he came back from having some time off he has pitched 5 times, 3 of them save oppurtunities, the other 2 were 6 run leads...

I dont think its a matter of him being healthy, I thinks its a matter of him not being comfortable throwing his pitches and locating them...

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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:00 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
BBF wrote:
You know, someone once posted some sort of analysis here that concluded managers make very little difference in the course of a year- something like 5 wins or losses MAX in a season.

John Russell isn't the reason we'll be missing the playoffs this year.

(Not signing Adam Dunn is... :lol: )


Nobody is to blame for why we will miss the playoffs this year. I'm just hoping we don't finish in the basement of the division. Russell still isn't a good manager. He is terrible managing the bullpen.


You know, there is quite a divide between "missing the playoffs", and going 65-97.

Out of 30 clubs, only 8 make the playoffs.

That means 22 clubs DO NOT make the playoffs.

Out of those 22 clubs, HOW MANY GO 65-97, and how many challange .500?


And for the record, John Russell is a horrible manager, who makes ridiculous game day decisions in regards to bunting, pitching, and everything else under the sun.


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 Post subject: Re: Small market Johnnie pulls a rabbit from the hat, once again
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:19 pm 
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Why can't we just enjoy our little 4 game winning streak? Let's bask in the enjoyment of beating up on the Rockies and Nationals for the next two games.


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