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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo is Back, Yates on the DL
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 11:49 am 
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Like mentioned before, he's headed back as soon as they identify a reliever for the next 13 days.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo is Back, Yates on the DL
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 11:58 am 
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Animal wrote:
Jack Round Tripper wrote:
Assuming we give credit to Joe Kerrigan for Zack Duke's start and for Ross Ohlendorf's start--- maybe it'll be a good thing for Gorzo to spend some time with him.

Man, if Snell and Gorzo could just get back to their 1st half of 2007 form, we just might have something here. That seems like so long ago.



Amen JRT! Amen!

Put him in there and see what happens. Can it really be any worse than Karstens? Not to mention, we would need a righty in the pen and not Gorzzy.


You know, I'm no fan of Karstens, but this thought that he is a terrible #5 starter is ridiculous. He has turned in 3 quality starts out of 6. Most teams would take that from a #5 starter. And yes, Gorzo can be much worse than that. I hate to say it, but if he were put in the rotation tomorrow, I would predict he WOULD be much worse than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo is Back, Yates on the DL
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:33 pm 
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I don't know if this is the right time to bring up Gorzelanny or not, but I do think he possesses more talent than any starter in the minors not named Lincoln or Morris. I would also argue he likely has as much as Snell, Ohlendorf, and more than Karstens. So at some point the Pirates need to find out if he's ever going to regain his 2007 form or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo is Back, Yates on the DL
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:47 pm 
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I agree. I realize Gorzo hasn't pitched well in over a year. I personally think he was hurt last year, and I'm wondering if that explains the reduction in speed on his fastball. Unfortunately however, many Pirates are not/have not performed up to expectations and they continue to run them out there. And that is fine...you have to find out about them. But you also have to find out about this guy. Maybe he said or did something to irritate management, I don't know. But he is better than Karstens. And if Kerrigan could get him to find it again, he would be the second best pitcher on this staff. That is a HUGE if I know, but in a season like this one worth finding out about.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo is Back, Yates on the DL
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:04 pm 
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BBF wrote:
You know, I'm no fan of Karstens, but this thought that he is a terrible #5 starter is ridiculous. He has turned in 3 quality starts out of 6. Most teams would take that from a #5 starter.

My thoughts as well. Karstens has had 3 pretty decent starts. Let's see how he does on Tuesday against a poor Washington club. If he has another quality start, that would make 4 out of 7, or 57%.

Know who has had equal to or less than 50% quality starts (Karsten's average) so far this year? The following:

Aaron Harang, Ryan Dempster, Roy Oswalt, Mike Pelfrey, Joe Blanton, Adam Wainwright, Edinson Volquez, Clayton Kershaw, and Cole Hamels.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagu ... hing.shtml

A bunch of 1, 2 and 3 starters.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo is Back, Yates on the DL
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:26 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
BBF wrote:
You know, I'm no fan of Karstens, but this thought that he is a terrible #5 starter is ridiculous. He has turned in 3 quality starts out of 6. Most teams would take that from a #5 starter.

My thoughts as well. Karstens has had 3 pretty decent starts. Let's see how he does on Tuesday against a poor Washington club. If he has another quality start, that would make 4 out of 7, or 57%.


He's been successful when he keeps the walks down and balls outta the stands. Washington has a penchant for longballs, I hope Jeff brings his "A" game tomorrow night. Karstens does strike me as the type of pitcher a guy like Dunn feasts off of though.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo is Back, Yates on the DL
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:28 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
He's been successful when he keeps the walks down and balls outta the stands. Washington has a penchant for longballs, I hope Jeff brings his "A" game tomorrow night. Karstens does strike me as the type of pitcher a guy like Dunn feasts off of though.


You mean hitting his fastball into the RF bleachers or picking him upside down and shaking him for lunch money?

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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo is Back, Yates on the DL
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:40 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
I agree. I realize Gorzo hasn't pitched well in over a year. I personally think he was hurt last year, and I'm wondering if that explains the reduction in speed on his fastball. Unfortunately however, many Pirates are not/have not performed up to expectations and they continue to run them out there. And that is fine...you have to find out about them. But you also have to find out about this guy. Maybe he said or did something to irritate management, I don't know. But he is better than Karstens. And if Kerrigan could get him to find it again, he would be the second best pitcher on this staff. That is a HUGE if I know, but in a season like this one worth finding out about.



I think those of us that are saying Karstens is a better option are not denying the fact that Gorzo has a ton more upside (at least, I am not). But his peripherals at Indy suggest he is not likely to be as successful as Karstens right now, and probably has room for more growth down on the farm. There may be something to the argument of allowing him to work with Kerrigan, but as of right now, I think he is better served in Indy. And, we have that luxury because we have 5 capable starters at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo is Back, Yates on the DL
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:53 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Argentum wrote:
He's been successful when he keeps the walks down and balls outta the stands. Washington has a penchant for longballs, I hope Jeff brings his "A" game tomorrow night. Karstens does strike me as the type of pitcher a guy like Dunn feasts off of though.


You mean hitting his fastball into the RF bleachers or picking him upside down and shaking him for lunch money?


Both.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorzo is Back, Yates on the DL
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:37 am 
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I think that Gorzo's stay with the Bucs will be mighty brief, despite his clutch K of Dunn with 2 runners in scoring position last night.
Virgil Vasquez would get the start today for Indy, so he's pretty much what Gorzo was yesterday: a decent arm that can give us sevral innings if we need it, especially given the recent use of the bullpen.
Of course, I have heard nothing about recalling V-V, so I'm probably wrong. Still, I think it makes sense. I also think it makes sense to remind Gorzalny what it feels like to pitch in the majors.


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