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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:08 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
I still question Capps' body frame, he still looks out of shape...He is a lot larger than he was in 2007...

I'm wondering between that and the high amount of games he threw his 1st two seasons if he is nothing more than a righty specialist?


It's all about "accountability". :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:13 am 
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Rod Serling wrote:
If you want hitting, you need to write checks.

The Pirates wrote a check for $6 million to Alvarez. They are one of three teams in the running to sign a Domican 16-year old hitter for $4 million. If they sign him, it will be for a record price for a Dominican teenager. They signed Robbie Grossman for much, much more money than his "slot" indicated. They spent $5 million on the Dominican academy.

I agree that the selections of guys like Moskos over Wieters, or the draft picks driven by price tag, explain the Pirates' present situation. However, your insistence that nothing has changed is just not consistent with the facts I noted above.

I am not an apologist. I still detest draft and roster decisions based on player cost. However, I do not believe that it is valid to point out budget-driven roster decisions in 1998, or 2000, or even 2005 as "proof" that the current Pirates owners and decision makers will not spend money to upgrade the roster.


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:24 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Rod Serling wrote:
If you want hitting, you need to write checks.

The Pirates wrote a check for $6 million to Alvarez. They are one of three teams in the running to sign a Domican 16-year old hitter for $4 million. If they sign him, it will be for a record price for a Dominican teenager. They signed Robbie Grossman for much, much more money than his "slot" indicated. They spent $5 million on the Dominican academy.

I agree that the selections of guys like Moskos over Wieters, or the draft picks driven by price tag, explain the Pirates' present situation. However, your insistence that nothing has changed is just not consistent with the facts I noted above.

I am not an apologist. I still detest draft and roster decisions based on player cost. However, I do not believe that it is valid to point out budget-driven roster decisions in 1998, or 2000, or even 2005 as "proof" that the current Pirates owners and decision makers will not spend money to upgrade the roster.


Ok you win.

I'll just go with the 50 million/third lowest payroll in major league baseball, as "proof" that the current Pirates owners and decision makers will not spend money to upgrade the roster.

Will that one work? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:32 am 
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Rod Serling wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
Rod Serling wrote:
If you want hitting, you need to write checks.

The Pirates wrote a check for $6 million to Alvarez. They are one of three teams in the running to sign a Domican 16-year old hitter for $4 million. If they sign him, it will be for a record price for a Dominican teenager. They signed Robbie Grossman for much, much more money than his "slot" indicated. They spent $5 million on the Dominican academy.

I agree that the selections of guys like Moskos over Wieters, or the draft picks driven by price tag, explain the Pirates' present situation. However, your insistence that nothing has changed is just not consistent with the facts I noted above.

I am not an apologist. I still detest draft and roster decisions based on player cost. However, I do not believe that it is valid to point out budget-driven roster decisions in 1998, or 2000, or even 2005 as "proof" that the current Pirates owners and decision makers will not spend money to upgrade the roster.


Ok you win.

I'll just go with the 50 million/third lowest payroll in major league baseball, as "proof" that the current Pirates owners and decision makers will not spend money to upgrade the roster.

Will that one work? :lol:


What good would it do to get a high paid player right now in the off-season. We are in bad shape right now and 1 player isn't going to change that. Maybe instead of losing 110 games this year we could've lost 105 if we kept Bay.


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:04 am 
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Rod Serling wrote:
Ok you win.

I usually do.

Rod Serling wrote:
I'll just go with the 50 million/third lowest payroll in major league baseball, as "proof" that the current Pirates owners and decision makers will not spend money to upgrade the roster.

Do you run a business? Only somebody with absolutely no business experience would believe that calculating just one cost is the proper way to measure business expenses.


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 3:27 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Rod Serling wrote:
Ok you win.

I usually do.

Rod Serling wrote:
I'll just go with the 50 million/third lowest payroll in major league baseball, as "proof" that the current Pirates owners and decision makers will not spend money to upgrade the roster.

Do you run a business? Only somebody with absolutely no business experience would believe that calculating just one cost is the proper way to measure business expenses.


"I'm not an apologist". :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 3:39 am 
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No, you are the equivalent of a 14 year old.

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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 12:49 pm 
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Rod Serling wrote:
"I'm not an apologist". :lol:

You view Pirate supporters as being in one of two - and only two - categories:

(1) The apologists, who merit your derision and spite since you are so much smarter than those spineless Pirates supporters.

(2) The knowledgeable critics of the Pirates, who will never support the organization as long as the evil ownership refuses to spend money on free agents.

You may wish to consider that these two extremes occupy only a small portion of the views of Pirates faithful. Indeed, the way you set up the discussion excludes most Pirates fans.


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:04 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
No, you are the equivalent of a 14 year old.


That would be you Mike.

You're the "Grown Man", who chooses to idolize the owner of a 17 year losing joke of a franchise.

Fool.


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Rod Serling wrote:
You're the "Grown Man", who chooses to idolize the owner of a 17 year losing joke of a franchise.

Are you aware that this is the Unofficial Pittsburgh Pirates message board? You sound like a Cleveland fan talking about the Steelers.

Seriously, if you harbor such hatred towards the franchise, follow another team.


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:31 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Rod Serling wrote:
"I'm not an apologist". :lol:

You view Pirate supporters as being in one of two - and only two - categories:

(1) The apologists, who merit your derision and spite since you are so much smarter than those spineless Pirates supporters.

(2) The knowledgeable critics of the Pirates, who will never support the organization as long as the evil ownership refuses to spend money on free agents.

You may wish to consider that these two extremes occupy only a small portion of the views of Pirates faithful. Indeed, the way you set up the discussion excludes most Pirates fans.


Incorrect: Here is the Breakdown:

1. The Fringe Element Freaks. Wilton, ZelieMike, and their two pilin' on, smilin' on pals.
Nutting worshipping psycho jobs who are blinded by their loyalty to an owner who is making alot of money by putting a losing product on the field.

2. The Local Fans. The 4,000 or so who show up to PNC Park every game. They get their Bucs hot dogs and bobbleheads, clap when Freddie or Jack or Nate make a play or drive in a run or two. They don't mind it when we lose two out of every three, and they'll tell ya how they feel every once in awhile, when they boo.

3. The National Fan Base. They realize the joke that Bob Nutting is. They realize the joke the Pirates are. It's pathetic, and they know it. They love the Pirates, and they know the only way for the Pirates to win, is for new ownership. They want Nutting gone.
Yesterday. These are the most in number. This is a large number of fans from across America, many living in cities much larger than Pittsburgh itself.


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:37 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Rod Serling wrote:
You're the "Grown Man", who chooses to idolize the owner of a 17 year losing joke of a franchise.

Are you aware that this is the Unofficial Pittsburgh Pirates message board? You sound like a Cleveland fan talking about the Steelers.

Seriously, if you harbor such hatred towards the franchise, follow another team.


I have hatred toward losing.

17 years of it, to be exact.


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:37 pm 
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Rod Serling wrote:
Incorrect: Here is the Breakdown:

1. The Fringe Element Freaks. Wilton, ZelieMike, and their two pilin' on, smilin' on pals.
Nutting worshipping psycho jobs who are blinded by their loyalty to an owner who is making alot of money by putting a losing product on the field.

2. The Local Fans. The 4,000 or so who show up to PNC Park every game. They get their Bucs hot dogs and bobbleheads, clap when Freddie or Jack or Nate make a play or drive in a run or two. They don't mind it when we lose two out of every three, and they'll tell ya how they feel every once in awhile, when they boo.

3. The National Fan Base. They realize the joke that Bob Nutting is. They realize the joke the Pirates are. It's pathetic, and they know it. They love the Pirates, and they know the only way for the Pirates to win, is for new ownership. They want Nutting gone. Yesterday. These are the most in number. This is a large number of fans from across America, many living in cities much larger than Pittsburgh itself.

I see ... I believed that you viewed Pirates fans as being in one of two categories, but in actuality you have three categories. The additional category consists of the 4,000 die-hard fans who attend games and do not care about the results.

You apparently have no category for the vast majority of Pirates fans, including those on this board. We are enraged with poor play and losses, still loathe Randy Marsh for his 1992 performance, demand better play and players, want the Pirates management to spend money to make the team better, and suffer with every loss and losing season.

We are harshly critical of horrid personnel decisions based on money (A. Ramirez trade, passing on Wieters). We do not have knee-jerk responses to personnel decisions and trades, however. For example, trading two productive major league players (Nady and Marte) for prospects (Tabata, Ohlendorf, McCutchen and Karstens).

However, as it turns out, that trade brought in 2/5 of the starting rotation; one of the best starters in the Pirates' minor league system; and a multi-tool OF'er who could be a productive hitter for years to come. A knee-jerk analysis of that trade would have been COMPLETELY wrong.

As for Jason Bay ... this topic has been discussed to death. Bryan Morris and Andy Laroche were high-level prospects. Hansen is a flame-thrower with control issues. Morris is a 4th OF'er with some left-handed power. Getting good young prospects in trade is now extremely difficult. Look at recent deals. Getting two top-end prospects and another high ceiling guy is much more difficult to do than you can appreciate.


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 6:37 pm 
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Rod Serling wrote:
Incorrect: Here is the Breakdown:

1. The Fringe Element Freaks. Wilton, ZelieMike, and their two pilin' on, smilin' on pals.
Nutting worshipping psycho jobs who are blinded by their loyalty to an owner who is making alot of money by putting a losing product on the field.

2. The Local Fans. The 4,000 or so who show up to PNC Park every game. They get their Bucs hot dogs and bobbleheads, clap when Freddie or Jack or Nate make a play or drive in a run or two. They don't mind it when we lose two out of every three, and they'll tell ya how they feel every once in awhile, when they boo.

3. The National Fan Base. They realize the joke that Bob Nutting is. They realize the joke the Pirates are. It's pathetic, and they know it. They love the Pirates, and they know the only way for the Pirates to win, is for new ownership. They want Nutting gone.
Yesterday. These are the most in number. This is a large number of fans from across America, many living in cities much larger than Pittsburgh itself.

I must say that given our history, I'm rather shocked to be grouped into a category of Pirate fan that includes ZelieMike.

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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 7:17 pm 
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LOL


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 Post subject: Re: May 15, 2009 Rockies (13-20) at Pirates (14-20)
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 9:38 pm 
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Willton wrote:
I must say that given our history, I'm rather shocked to be grouped into a category of Pirate fan that includes ZelieMike.

:D Nice ... very nice.


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