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 Post subject: Brandon Moss
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 10:46 am 
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There are times when I'm glad I can't get Pirate games on TV or even radio (without paying, that is). When I can, however, I tune in to the MLB channel on cable. Last night, for instance, just as they cut to the Pirates-Mets game in the sixth inning, with the score 2-2, one out, the LaRoches on first and second, and Brandon Moss up.

Not surprisingly, he K'd on a belt-high fastball.

Against a rookie pitcher making his first start.

Sigh.

Seconds later, they cut to the Red Sox-Rays. Boston was losing, 3-0, but the situation was otherwise identical. Sixth inning, one out, Red Sox runners on first and second, and Jason Bay up. In a rich bit of irony, he jacked a thigh-high fastball over the LF wall for a 3-run homer that tied the score -- against Tampa Bay's ace.

Of course, the Red Sox went on to win.

The Pirates: not so much.

Bay is the toast of the town here these days.

Moss, for whom Bay was traded, is, well, just toast.

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 Post subject: Re: Brandon Moss
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 11:28 am 
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I don't think you really can judge the Jason Bay trade too much by what we got from Boston. Remember, Boston took a lateral stop when they traded Manny for Bay. In fact, I think Boston made out the worst on that deal as they essentially got the same left fielder (or maybe even a little bit worse of a left fielder as they upgrade very slightly defensively but downgraded a little more offensively) AND they gave up 2 major league ready prospects. Hansen has stunk so far, but Moss could very well be a good major leaguer, it is too early to tell. The deal should be judged primarily based on what the Dodgers gave up. They gave up the most, as they should. Andy Laroche has incredible minor league numbers and is starting to show signs of being a really good major league hitter. His OBP is .083 points higher than his average which is very good. He is showing the patience he had in the minors, and the power will soon follow. Morris is hurt right now, but could be a very good pitcher if he pans out. Since the Dodgers got Manny and gave up minor leaguers in that deal, it is the players that the Pirates got primarily from the Dodgers that should dictate whether or not the deal ends up being a good one. I believe that Andy Laroche will soon allow Pirate fans to forget about Jason Bay (as will the ascention to the mean of Brandon Moss). It is not fair to look at Moss v. Bay and let that be the barometer of the Jason Bay deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Brandon Moss
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:02 pm 
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IronKett25 wrote:
I don't think you really can judge the Jason Bay trade too much by what we got from Boston. Remember, Boston took a lateral stop when they traded Manny for Bay. In fact, I think Boston made out the worst on that deal as they essentially got the same left fielder (or maybe even a little bit worse of a left fielder as they upgrade very slightly defensively but downgraded a little more offensively) AND they gave up 2 major league ready prospects. Hansen has stunk so far, but Moss could very well be a good major leaguer, it is too early to tell. The deal should be judged primarily based on what the Dodgers gave up. They gave up the most, as they should. Andy Laroche has incredible minor league numbers and is starting to show signs of being a really good major league hitter. His OBP is .083 points higher than his average which is very good. He is showing the patience he had in the minors, and the power will soon follow. Morris is hurt right now, but could be a very good pitcher if he pans out. Since the Dodgers got Manny and gave up minor leaguers in that deal, it is the players that the Pirates got primarily from the Dodgers that should dictate whether or not the deal ends up being a good one. I believe that Andy Laroche will soon allow Pirate fans to forget about Jason Bay (as will the ascention to the mean of Brandon Moss). It is not fair to look at Moss v. Bay and let that be the barometer of the Jason Bay deal.


1. A Pitcher who is getting shelled in the minor leagues.

2. An outfielder who is hitting .185.

"MAJOR LEAGUE READY"... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Brandon Moss
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:16 pm 
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Rod Serling wrote:

1. A Pitcher who is getting shelled in the minor leagues.


Who would that be?

Quote:
2. An outfielder who is hitting .185.

"MAJOR LEAGUE READY"... :lol:


Care to see the Mike Schmidt reference again? :roll:

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Brandon Moss
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:37 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Rod Serling wrote:

1. A Pitcher who is getting shelled in the minor leagues.


Who would that be?

Quote:
2. An outfielder who is hitting .185.

"MAJOR LEAGUE READY"... :lol:


Care to see the Mike Schmidt reference again? :roll:

ZM



Comparing Moss to Schmidt, is like saying Terry Bradshaw had a rough start, so it's only natural that Ryan Leaf had a rough start too.

It's a joke.


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 Post subject: Re: Brandon Moss
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:52 pm 
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Rod Serling wrote:
IronKett25 wrote:
I don't think you really can judge the Jason Bay trade too much by what we got from Boston. Remember, Boston took a lateral stop when they traded Manny for Bay. In fact, I think Boston made out the worst on that deal as they essentially got the same left fielder (or maybe even a little bit worse of a left fielder as they upgrade very slightly defensively but downgraded a little more offensively) AND they gave up 2 major league ready prospects. Hansen has stunk so far, but Moss could very well be a good major leaguer, it is too early to tell. The deal should be judged primarily based on what the Dodgers gave up. They gave up the most, as they should. Andy Laroche has incredible minor league numbers and is starting to show signs of being a really good major league hitter. His OBP is .083 points higher than his average which is very good. He is showing the patience he had in the minors, and the power will soon follow. Morris is hurt right now, but could be a very good pitcher if he pans out. Since the Dodgers got Manny and gave up minor leaguers in that deal, it is the players that the Pirates got primarily from the Dodgers that should dictate whether or not the deal ends up being a good one. I believe that Andy Laroche will soon allow Pirate fans to forget about Jason Bay (as will the ascention to the mean of Brandon Moss). It is not fair to look at Moss v. Bay and let that be the barometer of the Jason Bay deal.


1. A Pitcher who is getting shelled in the minor leagues.

2. An outfielder who is hitting .185.

"MAJOR LEAGUE READY"... :lol:


I don't know what you are talking about with the first bullet point, but both players were on Boston's major league roster last year............. but I suppose Theo Epstein doesn't really know what he is doing...............


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 Post subject: Re: Brandon Moss
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:40 am 
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IronKett25 wrote:
I don't think you really can judge the Jason Bay trade too much by what we got from Boston. Remember, Boston took a lateral stop when they traded Manny for Bay. In fact, I think Boston made out the worst on that deal as they essentially got the same left fielder (or maybe even a little bit worse of a left fielder as they upgrade very slightly defensively but downgraded a little more offensively) AND they gave up 2 major league ready prospects. Hansen has stunk so far, but Moss could very well be a good major leaguer, it is too early to tell. The deal should be judged primarily based on what the Dodgers gave up. They gave up the most, as they should. Andy Laroche has incredible minor league numbers and is starting to show signs of being a really good major league hitter. His OBP is .083 points higher than his average which is very good. He is showing the patience he had in the minors, and the power will soon follow. Morris is hurt right now, but could be a very good pitcher if he pans out. Since the Dodgers got Manny and gave up minor leaguers in that deal, it is the players that the Pirates got primarily from the Dodgers that should dictate whether or not the deal ends up being a good one. I believe that Andy Laroche will soon allow Pirate fans to forget about Jason Bay (as will the ascention to the mean of Brandon Moss). It is not fair to look at Moss v. Bay and let that be the barometer of the Jason Bay deal.



You think Boston got the worst of what deal? the Jason Bay one?. I think you ought to put that crack pipe down, at least till Sadir, or if you are not a hebe, till Christmas. At least Boston got a major league player who produces offensively, is not a liability(bad defensive out fielders turn outs into hits, remember, ever watch a Boston game with Manny in LF, if so, you know what i am talking about) One other thing Bay does that Ramirez doesn't is the ability run when asked to. If one or Manny's many secret injuries flares up, all bets are off.
Manny Ramirez can only do 1 thing , and that's Hit .He is a clown, put people want to see him, and that only increase's that teams popularity, whether in the stands, or in the gift shop.
Seeing the dodgers is like seeing the Harlem Globe Trotters, growing up you only knew the main guy, Meadowlark Lemon, but that was enough to make them the draw and the circus atmosphere when they were town. Ramirez is the meadow lark of the Dodgers, he was with Boston, and to a lesser extent with Cleveland.
But since he has been found guilty of cheating, he can't do even that at the major league level for the next 2 months.
I think Boston got the BEST of that trade by far.
Jason Bay has a lot of good baseball left in him, (what's he 31 at the most)?.
He has relatively injury free throughout his career, and has been a model of consistency as a major leaguer.
Ramiriez, you don't know if this is the beginning of the end for him(how long did it take Mc Gwire to vanish into oblivion after he was OUTED?.
Bay will remain with Boston, book it!!
Moss and Hansen will never , ever be key members of a winning franchise.
Andy La Roche?, if he starts putting the ball over the wall, he can be a player.
Morris?, who knows about him, to he gets on the mound more than every 6 monts between arm operation. Till he does, he can't be counted on to be anything to be a minor league innings eater(that is, of course , when he actually pitches an inning).


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 Post subject: Re: Brandon Moss
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 11:23 am 
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Palushock--- you list the reasons that there is no way to evaluate the Bay trade until several years have passed. On the major league level alone both Moss and Andy LaRoche have huge upsides to them.

You also don't memtion that Bay was to be a free agant soon and the Pirates unlike the Sox do not have deep pockets. so, he was probably gone anyway. So, now compare no Bay compared to what we got, and the minor leagers who may well become intregal parts of the team in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Brandon Moss
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:17 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
Palushock--- you list the reasons that there is no way to evaluate the Bay trade until several years have passed. On the major league level alone both Moss and Andy LaRoche have huge upsides to them.

You also don't memtion that Bay was to be a free agant soon and the Pirates unlike the Sox do not have deep pockets. so, he was probably gone anyway. So, now compare no Bay compared to what we got, and the minor leagers who may well become intregal parts of the team in the future.

Bay at the time of the trade had a full season and 3 months till he became a free agent, so the value they got in return for him is still questionable, but judging by the early returns, they have acquired 1 serviceable major league player for him(La Roche, and that's not saying a whole hell of a lot).

Moss has upside, what do you see in his overall game that brings you to that conclusion?. I don't see it, and probably neither will the team.


He has had more that a small sample size of play, and he doesn't fit the bill. Moss is not a major leage ball player, nothing you can do, say or show me stat wise will change my mind. I have seen him play the game , and he is overmatched, stuff like that happens.
He's gotta go work on his upside somewhere else, not in Pitssburgh, not getting the lion's share of ab's as the right fielder.
If you don't want to get rid of him totally, that's fine, let him stay in the organization, but not on this team, and not in the role he has now.
No options, fine, put him through waivers, give everyteam a shot at him, and you'll see that he will clear them easily.
Give someone else the job, because he certainly has not earned the right to keep it.
With the Bay trade, hindsight is 20/20, but i think the team could have gotten a better deal for him than they received. If Moss was ONE of the key components of it, that is a huge negative in terms of return, and i am sure NH knows that by now. He watches the games too.


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 Post subject: Re: Brandon Moss
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 3:09 pm 
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Give it a rest with Jason Bay already!!! Jason Bay wasnt going to save the Pirates in 2009...

I think April got some fair-weathered fans' hopes up...The Pirates arent contenders in 2009...

It doesnt mean they arent trying to win, and if somehow the moons and planets aligned and all the Pirates played to their potential there is a chance they could compete, but that chance is very very slim...

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