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 Post subject: Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:43 pm 
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http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-ramirezsuspension050709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

He was corking his bat.


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 Post subject: Re: Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 5:48 pm 
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From the article:
Quote:
Ramirez released the following statement Thursday morning: “Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was okay to give me. Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I’ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons."

I have to say that I find this quite believable. If Manny had been juicing his entire career, don't you think we'd have found out before now? This sounds like an instance where the policy overreaches.

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 Post subject: Re: Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:03 pm 
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Willton wrote:
I have to say that I find this quite believable. If Manny had been juicing his entire career, don't you think we'd have found out before now? This sounds like an instance where the policy overreaches.

Could be. However, one article noted that steroid users have reduced natural testosterone production and often require the ED medications to overcome this side effect. That is why certain medications are on the list - this is akin to Olympic testing banning certain chemicals which provide no direct benefit, but are used as "masking" agents.


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 Post subject: Re: Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:10 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Willton wrote:
I have to say that I find this quite believable. If Manny had been juicing his entire career, don't you think we'd have found out before now? This sounds like an instance where the policy overreaches.

Could be. However, one article noted that steroid users have reduced natural testosterone production and often require the ED medications to overcome this side effect. That is why certain medications are on the list - this is akin to Olympic testing banning certain chemicals which provide no direct benefit, but are used as "masking" agents.

Which I would understand if Manny had been juicing before he tested positive for the gonadoptrin. But then, I would think that an earlier drug test would have caught the steroids well before this one caught the gonadoptrin.

This leads me to believe that if Manny was juicing, it's a very recent development. Otherwise he just has a sleepy unit.

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 Post subject: Re: Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:48 pm 
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I knew it! No way a normal person could have grown hair that long n' bulky! (yeah, that's probably your stinky Jay Leno Joke of the Night).

Nevertheless, this will be sad, yet interesting to watch. Manny's a guy who, while in Boston and not wanting to play, said his left leg was hurting him. The next day showed up at the park limping on his right leg.

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 Post subject: Re: Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 9:21 pm 
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Agree with burger-- he was corking his own bat.

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 Post subject: Re: Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 9:40 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Could be. However, one article noted that steroid users have reduced natural testosterone production and often require the ED medications to overcome this side effect. That is why certain medications are on the list - this is akin to Olympic testing banning certain chemicals which provide no direct benefit, but are used as "masking" agents.

What he tested positive for — hCG — is used precisely for this purpose.

Quote:
ESPN reported earlier that testing showed Ramirez had used hCG, which is typically used by steroid users to restart their bodies' natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle.


link: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907

Anyone else the slightest bit curious why no one ever gets nailed for PED use while they're wearing a Red Sox uniform?

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 Post subject: Re: Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 9:44 pm 
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Willton wrote:
This leads me to believe that if Manny was juicing, it's a very recent development. Otherwise he just has a sleepy unit.

Why not then get a prescription for Viagra or Cialis? Why get a prescription for a female fertility drug commonly used by juicers?

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 Post subject: Re: Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:30 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Willton wrote:
This leads me to believe that if Manny was juicing, it's a very recent development. Otherwise he just has a sleepy unit.

Why not then get a prescription for Viagra or Cialis? Why get a prescription for a female fertility drug commonly used by juicers?

Dunno. Maybe Manny is cheap.

It's entirely possible that Manny did juice at one point. However, my question is why are we just finding out about it now unless it's only a recent thing? Steroid testing has been in effect since, what, 2004? If Manny was juicing prior to this year, isn't it reasonable to think that we would have found out about it earlier than now?

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 Post subject: Re: Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:41 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Anyone else the slightest bit curious why no one ever gets nailed for PED use while they're wearing a Red Sox uniform?

I got an idea: maybe because no one uses PEDs while on the Red Sox? I've also noticed that no one gets nailed for PED use while wearing a Pirates uniform as well. It can't just be a conspiracy in favor of Boston and Pittsburgh.

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 Post subject: Re: Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:04 am 
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Seriously...it's funny that people demand evidence that the Jason Bay trade was a salary dump, but when it comes to PEDs, as long as your name is mentioned, you're guilty.

I'm not saying this because I think the Jason Bay trade was a salary dump. I'm making a point that there is no evidence to support the claim that the trade was a salary dump, and there is significant evidence to the contrary.

I got news for you...it's the same with Manny. Yeah, he got caught for a "masking" substance. There have been numerous Olympic caliber track athletes to be banned for taking hair regrowth drugs, when they had a completely valid reason to be using them (i.e., they were bald). Should they have known better? Probably. But until you've seen the ridiculous amount of drugs included on the banned substance list, you should refrain from passing judgment. Taking the leap that such drugs were used expressly for the purpose of masking a performance enhancer is using the same logic as the salary dump proponents use.

I really wish America would get over itself when it came to baseball. It has never been a moral game, and drugs have been a part of it for at least a half century. Both the government and the league think they are eradicating illicit drugs by taking these measures. Their delusion would be comical if it weren't so pathetic...they're pissing against the wind.


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 Post subject: Re: Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 8:53 am 
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jaybee24 wrote:
Seriously...it's funny that people demand evidence that the Jason Bay trade was a salary dump, but when it comes to PEDs, as long as your name is mentioned, you're guilty.

I'm not saying this because I think the Jason Bay trade was a salary dump. I'm making a point that there is no evidence to support the claim that the trade was a salary dump, and there is significant evidence to the contrary.

I got news for you...it's the same with Manny. Yeah, he got caught for a "masking" substance. There have been numerous Olympic caliber track athletes to be banned for taking hair regrowth drugs, when they had a completely valid reason to be using them (i.e., they were bald). Should they have known better? Probably. But until you've seen the ridiculous amount of drugs included on the banned substance list, you should refrain from passing judgment. Taking the leap that such drugs were used expressly for the purpose of masking a performance enhancer is using the same logic as the salary dump proponents use.

I really wish America would get over itself when it came to baseball. It has never been a moral game, and drugs have been a part of it for at least a half century. Both the government and the league think they are eradicating illicit drugs by taking these measures. Their delusion would be comical if it weren't so pathetic...they're pissing against the wind.

While I wholly agree with your final point re: the moral lather that people work themselves into over this issue, your comparison of the salary dump argument vs. the Manny situation is pretty weak sauce, unless of course you can provide "significant evidence to the contrary" that Manny was using a female fertility drug for a legitimate medical complaint. Unlike the Jason-Bay-trade-was-a-salary-dump argument, the assumption of guilt here isn't being conjured out of thin air.

Quote:
Sources confirmed to The Times that the drug in question is human chorionic gonadotropin, or HCG, which can be used to boost testosterone levels. But although Ramirez, in a statement issued through the players union, the Major League Baseball Players Assn., said it was a medication prescribed by a physician for a "personal health issue," the list of its legitimate therapeutic uses by an adult male is short.

"In the legitimate world, HCG is used for infertility [by women] or for delayed puberty," Wadler said. "But for a man of his age [36] with a testosterone deficiency, there are much better drugs."


http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw-manny-drugs8-2009may08,0,4903769.story

Willton wrote:
LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Anyone else the slightest bit curious why no one ever gets nailed for PED use while they're wearing a Red Sox uniform?

I got an idea: maybe because no one uses PEDs while on the Red Sox?

Really? Wow. Really? I doubt you'd find many Red Sox homers who would venture that far out on a limb. I have a harder time believing that Boston runs a completely clean organization than I do believing that their braintrust has applied its considerable resources to figuring out a way to stay a step ahead of MLB's testing regimen — which, until recently, shouldn't have been that difficult.

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Small ball is the hobgoblin of small minds.


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