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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:50 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Willton wrote:
You're missing the point. You're not going to find out "which ones aren't there yet" until you've given them a substantial amount of time to prove themselves. One month into a season is not enough.

I'm not sure Mr Serling is worth arguing with on this point. He apparently believes that players should be defined and a final verdict on their worth reached based upon what they do in their first 2-300 at bats in the majors.



As I recall, the player that Bob Nutting dumped to get players like Moss, did pretty well in his first year in the Major Leagues.

I believe he was even Rookie Of The Year?


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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:50 pm 
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Here's a guy who would not make it on Rod Serling's team:

    September call up: .206/.325/.294 in 34 AB
    Rookie Season: .196/.324/.373 in 367 AB

Anyone care to hazard a guess who this is?

(As a point of reference, Andy Laroche's numbers thus far this season are .256/.330/.378 all higher than the mystery man in his first full season)


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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:28 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Here's a guy who would not make it on Rod Serling's team:

    September call up: .206/.325/.294 in 34 AB
    Rookie Season: .196/.324/.373 in 367 AB

Anyone care to hazard a guess who this is?

(As a point of reference, Andy Laroche's numbers thus far this season are .256/.330/.378 all higher than the mystery man in his first full season)

I was going to say Aramis Ramirez, but the numbers are not correct. Nevertheless, ARam is a similar player that would not make Serling's team.

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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:35 pm 
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That is right: Brandon Moss is going to be right up there with Aramis Ramirez in two years.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:40 pm 
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Rod Serling wrote:
That is right: Brandon Moss is going to be right up there with Aramis Ramirez in two years.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Perhaps not, but Andy LaRoche very well might.

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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:40 pm 
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Rod, time to relax man. I'm afraid that you may have health issues if you can't enjoy it a little more.

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THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:03 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Here's a guy who would not make it on Rod Serling's team:

    September call up: .206/.325/.294 in 34 AB
    Rookie Season: .196/.324/.373 in 367 AB

Anyone care to hazard a guess who this is?

(As a point of reference, Andy Laroche's numbers thus far this season are .256/.330/.378 all higher than the mystery man in his first full season)

Too easy...Michael Jack Schmidt. Who could at least play a very good defensive 3B early in his career. Something Andy LaRoche has not shown an ability to do yet.


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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:16 pm 
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Thunder wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
Here's a guy who would not make it on Rod Serling's team:

    September call up: .206/.325/.294 in 34 AB
    Rookie Season: .196/.324/.373 in 367 AB

Anyone care to hazard a guess who this is?

(As a point of reference, Andy Laroche's numbers thus far this season are .256/.330/.378 all higher than the mystery man in his first full season)

Too easy...Michael Jack Schmidt. Who could at least play a very good defensive 3B early in his career. Something Andy LaRoche has not shown an ability to do yet.


Have you watched some of the plays Andy has made lately? He's been playing a good 3rd base since the 1st week...

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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:16 pm 
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Thunder wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
Here's a guy who would not make it on Rod Serling's team:

    September call up: .206/.325/.294 in 34 AB
    Rookie Season: .196/.324/.373 in 367 AB

Anyone care to hazard a guess who this is?

(As a point of reference, Andy Laroche's numbers thus far this season are .256/.330/.378 all higher than the mystery man in his first full season)

Too easy...Michael Jack Schmidt. Who could at least play a very good defensive 3B early in his career. Something Andy LaRoche has not shown an ability to do yet.

Are you serious? Have you actually seen him play? Sure he was bad his first few games, but since then Andy LaRoche's defense has been well above average.

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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 10:52 am 
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Just to close the loop here. Mike Schmidt is the correct answer. For the person who brought up his defensive play, he appeared in 125 games at 3rd base as a rookie and committed 17 errors. His fielding percentage was .954. Laroche so far this year has committed 4 errors in 25 games with a fielding percentage of .956.

Please understand what I'm not saying. I'm not saying that Andy Laroche, Brandon Moss, Craig Hanson or Bryan Morris will ever reach the level of achievement attained by Schmidt. My point is that we have no idea what they'll achieve and one cannot use the statistics from their first few months of major league service as an accurate predictor of future success. Like the NFL draft, the success or failure of trades for prospects is something that can only be evaluated 3-5 years down the line.

One thing does seem very clear to me: if Jason Bay had been traded by the Pirates last July straight up for the 1972 model of Mike Schmidt, Rod Serling would be grousing about the trade right now and calling it a salary dump. Can you deny this, Rod?


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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:44 pm 
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Let's get something straight here: I am not saying that each and every move that has been made has been poor. The move in the Dominican was a good move. Nutting made another good move by firing Littlefield. I am not saying Coonely and Huntingdon are going to be an improvement, only time will tell this. However, I AM saying firing Littlefield was another good move in the right direction. Trading Nady was necessary; there was no way to resign him.

What I have been saying is that trading Bay was UNNECESSARY, and was A SALARY DUMP. What I have been saying is the truth. What I do not like, is that the front office, as well as the FSN Pirate announcing crew, will not admit this. Bay was willing to stay in Pittsburgh, even wanted to, and they gave him away to dump his salary. Nutting remains in the bottom three in salary in MLB. Hows' that working out for us so far?

17 straight years of losing, that's how.


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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:57 pm 
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Rod Serling wrote:
What I have been saying is that trading Bay was UNNECESSARY, and was A SALARY DUMP. What I have been saying is the truth. What I do not like, is that the front office, as well as the FSN Pirate announcing crew, will not admit this. Bay was willing to stay in Pittsburgh, even wanted to, and they gave him away to dump his salary. Nutting remains in the bottom three in salary in MLB. Hows' that working out for us so far?

Oh don't give us that bullshit. There was no way that Bay was going to stick around after 2009. Sure, he said that he would like to stay, and he put on the face and said all the nice things to make himself look like a good guy, but there was absolutely no way that he was going to limit his marketability by signing a short-term deal with a team that was in the basement with little chance of contending while he was still a useful player. At age 31, Bay was going to have only one shot at a big contract, and he was going to get that contract right, with both the money and the chance to play on a decent team. Bay's agent would have been guilty of malpractice if he didn’t urge Bay to test the market outside of Pittsburgh.

To quote Wilbur T Miller, "here’s one of the Immutable Rules of Baseball: Premium players do not sign free agent contracts, or sell out their free agent years by signing extensions, with moderate-income, non-contending teams. Read it. Understand it. Learn to accept it. Contrary to popular belief, it’s not just a matter of ownership “opening the wallets.” The Nationals outbid the Yankees for Mark Teixeira. How’d that work out?"

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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:58 pm 
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Can you prove Bay wanted to stay in Pittsburgh?

Say the Pirates dont trade him and he leaves at the end of this year and the team gets nothing for him? No Andy LaRoche, no Morris...

Nutting inherited a team that was run down at all parts of the organization...

Like a run down old house...are you going to fix the foundation first or are you going to paint the outside and put shutters on the windows first?

Things weren't run correctly before and need fixed...Has Huntington made perfect moves everytime? No, but he's been quick to fix his mistakes once they were deemed mistakes...

Jason Bay wasnt staying in Pittsburgh past this season no matter what, and he was dealt for 2 high prospects and 2 other guys who can be valuable contributors to the Major League team...

If there was a salary dump going on, Jack would have been the 1st to go and for peanuts, not Bay

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:03 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
If there was a salary dump going on, Jack would have been the 1st to go and for peanuts, not Bay

Excellent point. If Nutting was intent on dumping salary, why is Jack still with the team? He was making more than Bay was, and was and is far less useful.

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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:40 pm 
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Willton wrote:

To quote Wilbur T Miller, "here’s one of the Immutable Rules of Baseball: Premium players do not sign free agent contracts, or sell out their free agent years by signing extensions, with moderate-income, non-contending teams. Read it. Understand it. Learn to accept it. Contrary to popular belief, it’s not just a matter of ownership “opening the wallets.” The Nationals outbid the Yankees for Mark Teixeira. How’d that work out?"


Wilbur Miller? That's just a guy on the internet. Bob Smizik is a much better source.
:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:13 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Willton wrote:

To quote Wilbur T Miller, "here’s one of the Immutable Rules of Baseball: Premium players do not sign free agent contracts, or sell out their free agent years by signing extensions, with moderate-income, non-contending teams. Read it. Understand it. Learn to accept it. Contrary to popular belief, it’s not just a matter of ownership “opening the wallets.” The Nationals outbid the Yankees for Mark Teixeira. How’d that work out?"


Wilbur Miller? That's just a guy on the internet. Bob Smizik is a much better source.
:roll:


Attachment:
File comment: (I Did Not Edit this in anyway...This was how I found it on the Internet)
Picture_5.jpg
Picture_5.jpg [ 12.92 KiB | Viewed 309 times ]


All Hail Bob Smizik!!!! The greatest Sports Writer of all time!!!

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: LaRoche, Moss, and Young
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:43 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
BBF wrote:
Willton wrote:

To quote Wilbur T Miller, "here’s one of the Immutable Rules of Baseball: Premium players do not sign free agent contracts, or sell out their free agent years by signing extensions, with moderate-income, non-contending teams. Read it. Understand it. Learn to accept it. Contrary to popular belief, it’s not just a matter of ownership “opening the wallets.” The Nationals outbid the Yankees for Mark Teixeira. How’d that work out?"


Wilbur Miller? That's just a guy on the internet. Bob Smizik is a much better source.
:roll:


Attachment:
Picture_5.jpg


All Hail Bob Smizik!!!! The greatest Sports Writer of all time!!!


That would be another great photoshop project from thepensblog, I believe. Good stuff.


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