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 Post subject: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:21 pm 
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No excuse to take Maholm out he walked 1 guy and took him out!!! I am sick of putting so much attention on pitch counts. Thanks for this loss JR.


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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:22 pm 
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DoeyDoumit wrote:
No excuse to take Maholm out he walked 1 guy and took him out!!! I am sick of putting so much attention on pitch counts. Thanks for this loss JR.


I agree 100% with this. I was saying this during the game conversation when it was going on.

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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:23 pm 
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Maybe blame it on Matt Capps? Player needs to be held accountable he is the closer he is suppose to get the job done!

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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:24 pm 
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DoeyDoumit wrote:
No excuse to take Maholm out he walked 1 guy and took him out!!! I am sick of putting so much attention on pitch counts. Thanks for this loss JR.


I agree. 98 pitches is not a lot. Unless Russell saw something or Maholm said something there was no reason to take him out. The ace of your staff should have more leash than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:25 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Maybe blame it on Matt Capps? Player needs to be held accountable he is the closer he is suppose to get the job done!


Thats alsotrue, because no matter if Maholm did pitch the 8th Capps would have been in for the 9th and probably have done the same thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:28 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Maybe blame it on Matt Capps? Player needs to be held accountable he is the closer he is suppose to get the job done!

Okay, I am seriously worried. Not about Capps, but about me. I find myself agreeing wholeheartedly with Ryann on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:11 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Maybe blame it on Matt Capps? Player needs to be held accountable he is the closer he is suppose to get the job done!



I think we should blame Capps, then Grabow. If Maholm blows his arm out this season is over and maybe next year too.

This loss really hurts.

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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:41 am 
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BostonBuc wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Maybe blame it on Matt Capps? Player needs to be held accountable he is the closer he is suppose to get the job done!



I think we should blame Capps, then Grabow. If Maholm blows his arm out this season is over and maybe next year too.

This loss really hurts.


Thats a joke saying if Maholm threw more than 90 pitches he would blow his arm out. I pitched from the time i was 4 until i graduated highschool and i can tell you there is a good of chance in getting hurt on pitch #20 as there is on pitch #100. It just happens. I miss i can see not wanting him to go over 110 but 93 i think is how many he threw and that was a joke to take Maholm out at that point.

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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 8:19 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Maybe blame it on Matt Capps? Player needs to be held accountable he is the closer he is suppose to get the job done!


Thats alsotrue, because no matter if Maholm did pitch the 8th Capps would have been in for the 9th and probably have done the same thing.


Well that depends on what happened for the rest of the 8th inning. A lot of "what ifs" in this situation. Capps could have faced an entirely different part of the line up. Capps could have been pitching in a 3-1 game instead of a 4-4 game.


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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:22 am 
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It certainly hasnt been the nicest of baseball weather lately in Pittsburgh and look at Maholm's past two starts after alot of pitching early on his first couple of starts...Lastnight was an ideal game Maholm pitches 7 innings, Grabow in the 8th, and Capps in the 9th...It just didn't work...

Everyone was bitching how if the starters can pitch more to not use guys like Burnett and Chavez and Yates and Maholm did that and Russell turned it over to the 2 best pieces in the bullpen and they didn't perform...unless Russell goes out in the 9th to close it, he managed the way it should have been managed...

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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:43 am 
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nad69dan wrote:
It certainly hasnt been the nicest of baseball weather lately in Pittsburgh and look at Maholm's past two starts after alot of pitching early on his first couple of starts...Lastnight was an ideal game Maholm pitches 7 innings, Grabow in the 8th, and Capps in the 9th...It just didn't work...

Everyone was bitching how if the starters can pitch more to not use guys like Burnett and Chavez and Yates and Maholm did that and Russell turned it over to the 2 best pieces in the bullpen and they didn't perform...unless Russell goes out in the 9th to close it, he managed the way it should have been managed...


I couldn't agree more, nad69dan. It's a long season. Eight times out of ten the Pirates win the game in that circumstance. The fact that it didn't work last night doesn't mean it wasn't the right strategy.

Personally, other than the result, I found much to be encouraged about last night. Some Pirates who need to hit for power finally did; McLouth appears to be fully back from his injury; Maholm bounced back from a couple of sub-par outings to pitch very well (complete with more strike outs); Jaramillo continues to swing the bat better than any of us expected; the Pirates showed resilience in retaking the lead after the Brewers tied it in the eight. But baseball is baseball. Sometimes you lose games in disappointing fashion. All in all, I'm still encouraged that both the team and the organization are moving in the right direction.

BM


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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:46 am 
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Colin21 wrote:

Thats a joke saying if Maholm threw more than 90 pitches he would blow his arm out. I pitched from the time i was 4 until i graduated highschool and i can tell you there is a good of chance in getting hurt on pitch #20 as there is on pitch #100. It just happens. I miss i can see not wanting him to go over 110 but 93 i think is how many he threw and that was a joke to take Maholm out at that point.


No to question your experience, but it's pretty well known that the chance of injury dramatically increases with every pitch over the 100th. Maholm threw 98 pitches.

I blame Capps. He was given the ball with a one run lead in the ninth, he's supposed to get three outs, that's what he's paid for.


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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:03 pm 
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I don't understand how Russell gets the blame for last night's loss. As I understand where people are coming from regarding taking Maholm out, I also believe Russell was justified doing so. Especially considering the amount of criticism he just took for leaving Snell in too long last week. But more importantly, how was it Russell's fault

a) Grabow gave up a single to Fielder
b) Grabow walked Cameron
c) Braun blooped a double to right
d) Capps didn't do his job including not getting an out when the Brewers were trying to make an out.


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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:25 pm 
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Pitch counts are a joke. Look, Matt Capps blew the game last night. Plain and simple. However, there was no reason to take Maholm out because of a walk. He struck Hart out the batter before and looked strong. He said so himself after the game in a very politically correct way. Capps gets the blame for losing this game, but it is more than fair to question Russell's handling of his ace pitcher. And he has shown this year that he will let his starters out there. I don't know the exact number, but Snell threw 113 or something like that. Duke also had a game or two with much higher pitch counts. He was at 98, not 110. He should've at least been allowed to try and get out of the inning. He is the ACE. He should be afforded more rope.


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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:29 pm 
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He was given his chance. But, in the 8th after you walk someone, you had better be ready to go.

Really, all this comes about because.

1. Braun hits a seeing eye bloop double mint chip hit. In effect Grabow did his job and busted Braun bad, and;
2. The home plate ump decided to stop calling strikes in the 9th in which Weeks should have been walking to the bench with buckled knees.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:51 pm 
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I can't think of any other sport in which the basic structure of the game is so controlled by a fallible human. Yes, there are bad calls made by umpires and referees in every sort of ballgame but none of them are about the intrinsic aspect of whether or not the ball is correctly 'in play'. The nearest equivalent is that of a bowler in cricket being called for bowling a wide, but that is much more clearly delineated.
I am happy to umpire in cricket, but have always turned down requests to be a baseball umpire precisely for the reason that I am not sure if I could trust myself to call balls and strikes correctly. How many of us could?

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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:07 pm 
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Bertie wrote:
I am happy to umpire in cricket, but have always turned down requests to be a baseball umpire precisely for the reason that I am not sure if I could trust myself to call balls and strikes correctly. How many of us could?

I have umpired a number of games, involving players ranging from age 8-9 and up through high school games where the pitcher is throwing 80+ mph. Calling balls and strikes is like any other skill. Good technique, experience, and concentration = good calls.

I believe that umpires get lazy when calling Pirate games. Hey, who gives a shit, it's the Pirates. They blow more calls against the Pirates than any other team due to laziness.

Moreover, the mistakes are generally not in favor of the crappy team (Pirates). These are the facts of life. What bothers me is that the Pirates have been completely docile about this issue for years. Nobody in MLB is going to do a damn thing to examine this issue, since the Pirates are not fighting to have more consistent umpiring at their games.

At some point, the umpires are going to have to be challenged about their indifference and laziness involving Pirate games. Until then, why should they change? I know that the popular perception is that complaining simply engenders anger by the umpires and even less balanced calls, but I do not think so. I believe that if the umpires are called out and attention is paid to their lousy calls, they will understand that they are now under scrutiny and will be more focused. Just my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:16 pm 
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jaybee24 wrote:
Colin21 wrote:

Thats a joke saying if Maholm threw more than 90 pitches he would blow his arm out. I pitched from the time i was 4 until i graduated highschool and i can tell you there is a good of chance in getting hurt on pitch #20 as there is on pitch #100. It just happens. I miss i can see not wanting him to go over 110 but 93 i think is how many he threw and that was a joke to take Maholm out at that point.


No to question your experience, but it's pretty well known that the chance of injury dramatically increases with every pitch over the 100th. Maholm threw 98 pitches.

I blame Capps. He was given the ball with a one run lead in the ninth, he's supposed to get three outs, that's what he's paid for.


I will go on that Kevin Millwood is 34 years old and not in as good of shape as Maholm and he hasn't had an outting this year so far where he has thrown less than 110 pitches this season. Paul Maholm is 26 and in better shape than Millwood and he was only allowed to throw 90 some pitches.
But i the reason this arguement keeps going on about whos fault it was is because it was answer D all of the above. It was Russell, it was Grabow, and it was Capps. All three of them had a hand in blowing yesterdays game.

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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:44 pm 
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cappscrew138 wrote:
Colin21 wrote:
Ryann wrote:
Maybe blame it on Matt Capps? Player needs to be held accountable he is the closer he is suppose to get the job done!


Thats alsotrue, because no matter if Maholm did pitch the 8th Capps would have been in for the 9th and probably have done the same thing.


Well that depends on what happened for the rest of the 8th inning. A lot of "what ifs" in this situation. Capps could have faced an entirely different part of the line up. Capps could have been pitching in a 3-1 game instead of a 4-4 game.


It was 4-3 when capps came in and he let the bases get loaded, sac fly, and then weeks homered.

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 Post subject: Re: Blame this loss on JR
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:56 pm 
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Whoever said Capps is responsible is right. grabow was second in line.

Maholm was no longer thowing strikes. If left in he was in serious trouble.

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