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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:17 pm 
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Willton wrote:
It's not Bay's fault that the pitching and defense gave up 7 runs.


No but it is his fault his onions shrink to the size of sand when he hits with runners in scoring position.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:32 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Willton wrote:
It's not Bay's fault that the pitching and defense gave up 7 runs.


No but it is his fault his onions shrink to the size of sand when he hits with runners in scoring position.

Oh give it a rest. Not everyone can be as lucky with RISP as Xavier Nady (who, mind you, has K'ed more often and walked less with RISP than Bay has).

It never ceases to amaze me how people will vilify Jason Bay even after a night where he was the only batter to do something substantial to help the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:47 pm 
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Willton wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
I hate being such a pessimist but that is the Jason Bay I know and love. Down 7-0 in the 9th...time for a clutch two run bomb. Oh yes, both he and LaRoche will end the season with respectable numbers.

It's not Bay's fault that the pitching and defense gave up 7 runs.


No, but it was his and the rest of the team's for getting a mere 4 hits off of a BAD road pitcher this year heading into the 9th. In short, really atrocious outing by both the pitching and offense. Maholm got knocked pretty good, but (and yes, I'm excluding the bottom of the 9th right now) whether it was 7-0 or 1-0, you can't win if you don't hit/score.

The scary part is, as "cashing in on opportunities" has been the story of the year so far for the Pirates, they actually had a chance to cash in with some runs tonight even with the limited hits. I remember Freddy with the lead-off double, and runners on the corner which resulted in nothing, obviously. Don't remember if that was the same inning or not, but I believe one of those ended on LaRoche watching strike three as one of his two K's on the night.

Point being, we've won these types of games before as ugly as they are, but tonight was certainly not one of them, and was ugly for the team as a whole. The good news is that the Reds are currently down 2-0 in Los Angeles with the Dodgers having the bases loaded.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:27 am 
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Take my advice. When watching the Pirates, if they are putting up a stinker (something that will happen approximately 50 times per year), then do something more enjoyable.

Me? I go for a run. The Pirates have increased my running from 3x per week to as much as 5x per week. I owe them a lot. If they were good, I would be much less fit.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:51 am 
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i think major league baseball players should know how many outs there are.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:13 am 
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I know the general opinion on the board of Bob Smizik's columns, and there are times I share it. But, honestly, how can anyone quarrel with today's? It's spot on, as our esteemed Bertie might say.

The Pirates aren't a good team; everyone knows that. Last night's game, though, may have been their most listless and feeble of the season. Not only do they lack talent, depth, discipline, and intelligence, but their starting pitching is atrocious.

Thank goodness for that sweep of the Giants and those five W's against the Braves.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:11 am 
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Willton wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
Willton wrote:
It's not Bay's fault that the pitching and defense gave up 7 runs.


No but it is his fault his onions shrink to the size of sand when he hits with runners in scoring position.

Oh give it a rest. Not everyone can be as lucky with RISP as Xavier Nady (who, mind you, has K'ed more often and walked less with RISP than Bay has).

It never ceases to amaze me how people will vilify Jason Bay even after a night where he was the only batter to do something substantial to help the team.

Just another in a long line of good players who are ripped by the fans. They ripped Dave Parker and they ripped Barry Bonds; why should Bay get a pass?

Jason Bay's career numbers with runners in scoring position: .401 OBP, .536 SLUG
With the game tied: .380 OBP, .517 SLUG
Within one run: .375 OBP, .503 SLUG
Within two runs: .365 OBP, .495 SLUG

No sense in letting a few facts get in the way of a good rant, though. Bay sux.

LOL.

Just for comparison's sake, here are the same numbers for a REAL clutch hitter:
With runners in scoring position: .335 OBP, .388 SLUG
With the game tied: .341 OBP, .461 SLUG
Within one run: .340 OBP, .442 SLUG
Within two runs: .346 OBP, .453 SLUG

Thank god for Xavier Nady.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:12 am 
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Willton wrote:
I guess we'll see how helpful "protecting" Bautista will be.


As for last night's game, not very. In the first inning, only McLouth gave Parra much of a battle by going deep into the count. Also, based upon DK's reporting, it appears that the move to second in the order didn't stop Bautista (in the 6th?) from what was previously described as his "all or nothing" approach to hitting this year that has apparently frustrated Pirate management. Sanchez with a lead-off double . . . Bautista K's and apparently isn't looking at the possibility of hitting behind the runner.

Sounds like a brain dead performance last night. I only watched about 3 innings and just about lost my mind with frustration when Maholm couldn't move Bixler to second base when Parra was struggling with his control and when Paulino ripped a line drive which would have been a double (and likely RBI) but for the fact that it was hit right at The Immoblile Vegetarian.

I maintain that - in the second spot - Bautista will see better pitches. I'm hoping that it wakes him out of this funk. However, given his play of late, the reported dissatisfaction with his play and the fact that the Bucs will see more righties than lefties, we may not be seeing much of Bautista at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:19 am 
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Yeah, Bautista's swing does not look like the one I saw when he was in Rookie and A ball. Wehner has said as much, too. Its in there, but he's not doing it.

So, I can see Menk playing much more time at 3b, anda priority at the trade deadline to be a legit 3b player, whether an older stop-gap, or a real good prospect.

(The stop-gap guy would come as a throw in with real prospects, just to short circuit the future notes coming my way)

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:38 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
So, I can see Menk playing much more time at 3b, anda priority at the trade deadline to be a legit 3b player, whether an older stop-gap, or a real good prospect.

(The stop-gap guy would come as a throw in with real prospects, just to short circuit the future notes coming my way)

ZM


(1) Mientk is the stop-gap.

(2) Walker is in AAA. The Bucs are likely to draft Pedro Alvarez. Third base is covered.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:42 pm 
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From what I'm reading herein, Alverez will not be a 3b in the MLB. Also, I read that the Pirates, also verrrrrrrrrry thin as SS, might just take the Beckham kid.

Meink is short-time, stop gap. I just cannot see him doing it every day. I'm thinking more along the lines of true 3b in the Glaus mold here. A competant guy who can hold down the place full time and respectably until Walker shows he can hit over .250!

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:33 pm 
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I don't think you can draft based on what the needs are for the current team. This team will not be the same team when any of these kids are ready to play in Pittsburgh. Draft the best possible player.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:53 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Yeah, Bautista's swing does not look like the one I saw when he was in Rookie and A ball. Wehner has said as much, too. Its in there, but he's not doing it.

So, I can see Menk playing much more time at 3b, anda priority at the trade deadline to be a legit 3b player, whether an older stop-gap, or a real good prospect.

(The stop-gap guy would come as a throw in with real prospects, just to short circuit the future notes coming my way)

ZM


Correct me if I am wrong here . . .
Didn't DK report last year that Bautista was trying to shorten his swing both "in length" and "in force?" And, didn't DK also report that Bautista reaped the benefits of this approach after becoming comfortable with this approach?
Finally, and I ask this in all seriousness . . . what impact can playing winter ball have upon a player as far as developing bad habits or "undoing" good practices developed in the previous season?
I have no idea what Bautista did during the winter season other than playing for a Dominican team. Was he instructed to "swing" for the fences" or to be "less disciplined?" Did he have some success with a different approach over the winter and decided to stay with it?
Again, I don't know. But . . . he looks like a different player at the plate this year (with the exception of the Washington series which, ironically, may have done more harm than good in that he continued to believe that he should be "whacking away" and swinging for HRs). Personally, I was hoping that a move in the order and seeing better pitches might get him refocused on what management wants him to do. Far too early to tell after one game but . . . . he has all but played himself into a platoon and limited playing time.
Outside of the pitching staff, I can say that Bautista is my biggest disappointment this year. LaRoche is running second . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:16 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
From what I'm reading herein, Alverez will not be a 3b in the MLB. Also, I read that the Pirates, also verrrrrrrrrry thin as SS, might just take the Beckham kid.

Meink is short-time, stop gap. I just cannot see him doing it every day. I'm thinking more along the lines of true 3b in the Glaus mold here. A competant guy who can hold down the place full time and respectably until Walker shows he can hit over .250!

ZM

I find it doubtful that Beckham will be available when the Pirates pick. The Rays appear to want Beckham as the top pick in the draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:19 pm 
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Willton wrote:
I find it doubtful that Beckham will be available when the Pirates pick. The Rays appear to want Beckham as the top pick in the draft.


Maybe, maybe not: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08142/883494-63.stm

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:23 pm 
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I find it seriously doubtful that the Rays will take Posey with the #1 pick. From what I've read, Posey is a good talent, but not #1 material like Beckham and Alvarez. Plus, I've read that Posey is a work in progress behind the plate, and if Posey can't make it at catcher, he becomes much less valuable.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:12 pm 
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Rays have done a good job with the top pick the last several years, but last year's selection - David Price - has yet to pitch in professional ball. Is he injured? If so, then the Rays may have learned the lesson that the Pirates have been taught - repeatedly - over the past 10 years: Selecting pitching number one is risky due to the likelihood of injury.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:14 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Rays have done a good job with the top pick the last several years, but last year's selection - David Price - has yet to pitch in professional ball. Is he injured? If so, then the Rays may have learned the lesson that the Pirates have been taught - repeatedly - over the past 10 years: Selecting pitching number one is risky due to the likelihood of injury.

Sure it's risky, but who were the Rays supposed to pick? David Price is a top-flight pitching prospect who will be in the majors likely by next year. I read recently that Price is currently in extended-spring training, and on his most recent start he struck out 10 in 5 innings -- including two K's by Alex Rodriguez (who was on rehab assignment). And from what scouts were saying about him last year, that's the tip of the iceberg. The Rays would have been fools to pass up on Price.

Drafting pitching in the first round is certainly risky, but often times the risk is outweighed by the potential reward. It all depends on who the pitcher is.

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