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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:51 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
I can't think of a more boring pitcher to watch pitch than Maholm. He is so.......freaking..........slow. It's amazing the Bucco defense doesn't have more errors than they do when he is on the bump.


Good point. The odd thing is that he worked pretty fast last year. He finished one game in less than 2 hours. That is working fast.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:52 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
You don't see much difference between a 24 year old who can play multiple positions and shows power and a thirty year old first baseman who is already declining and has never had any power?


I never said I don't see the difference, I obviously get and understand Bautista being the starter and Doug M being on the bench. But since you added the part about Doug being a weak hitter, I don't quite think it's fair to be saying that Bautista is superior in that category, because he isn't, and never has been. As far the "power" comparison, I'm not quite sure your assessment of that is very fair either. Doug used to have kind of similar numbers in the HR category as Bautista did, and yes Bautista had a nice little run knocking out those 4 earlier this year, but that hasn't lasted. I would love to him to prove me wrong but I wouldn't be ready to call him much more superior in that category either. Don't get me wrong, as I said, Bautista in today's game is a much better third basemen, especially defensively, but I would hardly say Jose has the job wrapped up or would be ready to say he has done that much better of a job when Doug M has started. Even defensively, I wouldn't say Bautista is completely sound yet. He has made some VERY nice plays this year, but also had his fair share of what led us to having the most errors in the league earlier in the year.


Last edited by TheShark on Tue May 20, 2008 9:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:54 pm 
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Freddy has a chance to make up for that run he gave the Brewers . . . let's go, offense.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:00 pm 
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This game may be the ugliest game of the year.

Forget this team. I have better things to do - walk the tortoise, watch the lawn grow, do my taxes. Anything would be better than this slow torture.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:00 pm 
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This game has just turned out really ... odd. 9/10 times Nate would not have K'ed right there. If I see ONE more double by Freddy get wasted ... I'll ... be very upset.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:11 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
You don't see much difference between a 24 year old who can play multiple positions and shows power and a thirty year old first baseman who is already declining and has never had any power?


I never said I don't see the difference, I obviously get and understand Bautista being the starter and Doug M being on the bench. But since you added the part about Doug being a weak hitter, I don't quite think it's far to be saying that Bautista is superior in that category, because he isn't, and never has been.


I was trying to say that Bautista had superior potential as a hitter, but I obviously didn't express that very well, lol.

Quote:
As far the "power" comparison, I'm not quite sure your assessment of that is very fair either. Doug used to have kind of similar numbers in the HR category as Bautista did, and yes Bautista had a nice little run knocking out those 4 earlier this year, but that hasn't lasted. I would love to him to prove me wrong but I wouldn't be ready to call him much more superior in that category either.


Once again, I was referring to potential, but Bautista's power was better over the last two seasons as well. The best way to measure power is isolated power, which is slugging percentage minus batting average. Bautista's ISOs were .185 and .160; Minky put up .128 and .163 (in limited play). Bautista is ahead again this year, .160 to .116.

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Don't get me wrong, as I said, Bautista in today's game is a much better defensive third basemen, especially defensively, but I would hardly say Jose has the job wrapped up or would be ready to say he has done that much better of a job when Doug M has started. Even defensively, I wouldn't say Bautista is completely sound yet. He has made some VERY nice plays this year, but also had his fair share of what led us to having the most errors in the league earlier in the year.

I don't think that Bautista's defense is sound, either, but it is much better than Minky's. He just doesn't have the range or arm of a third baseman, no matter how steady his glove is.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:18 pm 
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Well, I'm done for tonight. They'll have to come from behind without me.

As if . . . :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:20 pm 
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Pirates and Curve both getting shut out. Jack Wilson 0 for 3 tonight. He did turn a DP with Josh Shortslef. Shortslef pitched three innings of relief, one earned run.

Mateo is pitching for Altoona now (the guy we picked up who refused to report to the Cubs rookie league.) Yoslan Herrera starts tomorrow vs. Eastern League player of the week pitcher for Akron.

It's funny that the Akron Aeros announcer is a diehard Brewers fan. He keeps talking about the Brewers & Pirates.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:07 pm 
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I hate being such a pessimist but that is the Jason Bay I know and love. Down 7-0 in the 9th...time for a clutch two run bomb. Oh yes, both he and LaRoche will end the season with respectable numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:14 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
I hate being such a pessimist but that is the Jason Bay I know and love. Down 7-0 in the 9th...time for a clutch two run bomb. Oh yes, both he and LaRoche will end the season with respectable numbers.

It's not Bay's fault that the pitching and defense gave up 7 runs.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:17 pm 
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Willton wrote:
It's not Bay's fault that the pitching and defense gave up 7 runs.


No but it is his fault his onions shrink to the size of sand when he hits with runners in scoring position.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:32 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Willton wrote:
It's not Bay's fault that the pitching and defense gave up 7 runs.


No but it is his fault his onions shrink to the size of sand when he hits with runners in scoring position.

Oh give it a rest. Not everyone can be as lucky with RISP as Xavier Nady (who, mind you, has K'ed more often and walked less with RISP than Bay has).

It never ceases to amaze me how people will vilify Jason Bay even after a night where he was the only batter to do something substantial to help the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:47 pm 
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Willton wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
I hate being such a pessimist but that is the Jason Bay I know and love. Down 7-0 in the 9th...time for a clutch two run bomb. Oh yes, both he and LaRoche will end the season with respectable numbers.

It's not Bay's fault that the pitching and defense gave up 7 runs.


No, but it was his and the rest of the team's for getting a mere 4 hits off of a BAD road pitcher this year heading into the 9th. In short, really atrocious outing by both the pitching and offense. Maholm got knocked pretty good, but (and yes, I'm excluding the bottom of the 9th right now) whether it was 7-0 or 1-0, you can't win if you don't hit/score.

The scary part is, as "cashing in on opportunities" has been the story of the year so far for the Pirates, they actually had a chance to cash in with some runs tonight even with the limited hits. I remember Freddy with the lead-off double, and runners on the corner which resulted in nothing, obviously. Don't remember if that was the same inning or not, but I believe one of those ended on LaRoche watching strike three as one of his two K's on the night.

Point being, we've won these types of games before as ugly as they are, but tonight was certainly not one of them, and was ugly for the team as a whole. The good news is that the Reds are currently down 2-0 in Los Angeles with the Dodgers having the bases loaded.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:27 am 
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Take my advice. When watching the Pirates, if they are putting up a stinker (something that will happen approximately 50 times per year), then do something more enjoyable.

Me? I go for a run. The Pirates have increased my running from 3x per week to as much as 5x per week. I owe them a lot. If they were good, I would be much less fit.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:51 am 
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i think major league baseball players should know how many outs there are.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:13 am 
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I know the general opinion on the board of Bob Smizik's columns, and there are times I share it. But, honestly, how can anyone quarrel with today's? It's spot on, as our esteemed Bertie might say.

The Pirates aren't a good team; everyone knows that. Last night's game, though, may have been their most listless and feeble of the season. Not only do they lack talent, depth, discipline, and intelligence, but their starting pitching is atrocious.

Thank goodness for that sweep of the Giants and those five W's against the Braves.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:11 am 
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Willton wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
Willton wrote:
It's not Bay's fault that the pitching and defense gave up 7 runs.


No but it is his fault his onions shrink to the size of sand when he hits with runners in scoring position.

Oh give it a rest. Not everyone can be as lucky with RISP as Xavier Nady (who, mind you, has K'ed more often and walked less with RISP than Bay has).

It never ceases to amaze me how people will vilify Jason Bay even after a night where he was the only batter to do something substantial to help the team.

Just another in a long line of good players who are ripped by the fans. They ripped Dave Parker and they ripped Barry Bonds; why should Bay get a pass?

Jason Bay's career numbers with runners in scoring position: .401 OBP, .536 SLUG
With the game tied: .380 OBP, .517 SLUG
Within one run: .375 OBP, .503 SLUG
Within two runs: .365 OBP, .495 SLUG

No sense in letting a few facts get in the way of a good rant, though. Bay sux.

LOL.

Just for comparison's sake, here are the same numbers for a REAL clutch hitter:
With runners in scoring position: .335 OBP, .388 SLUG
With the game tied: .341 OBP, .461 SLUG
Within one run: .340 OBP, .442 SLUG
Within two runs: .346 OBP, .453 SLUG

Thank god for Xavier Nady.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:12 am 
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Willton wrote:
I guess we'll see how helpful "protecting" Bautista will be.


As for last night's game, not very. In the first inning, only McLouth gave Parra much of a battle by going deep into the count. Also, based upon DK's reporting, it appears that the move to second in the order didn't stop Bautista (in the 6th?) from what was previously described as his "all or nothing" approach to hitting this year that has apparently frustrated Pirate management. Sanchez with a lead-off double . . . Bautista K's and apparently isn't looking at the possibility of hitting behind the runner.

Sounds like a brain dead performance last night. I only watched about 3 innings and just about lost my mind with frustration when Maholm couldn't move Bixler to second base when Parra was struggling with his control and when Paulino ripped a line drive which would have been a double (and likely RBI) but for the fact that it was hit right at The Immoblile Vegetarian.

I maintain that - in the second spot - Bautista will see better pitches. I'm hoping that it wakes him out of this funk. However, given his play of late, the reported dissatisfaction with his play and the fact that the Bucs will see more righties than lefties, we may not be seeing much of Bautista at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:19 am 
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Yeah, Bautista's swing does not look like the one I saw when he was in Rookie and A ball. Wehner has said as much, too. Its in there, but he's not doing it.

So, I can see Menk playing much more time at 3b, anda priority at the trade deadline to be a legit 3b player, whether an older stop-gap, or a real good prospect.

(The stop-gap guy would come as a throw in with real prospects, just to short circuit the future notes coming my way)

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers vs Pirates 5/20/08
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:38 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
So, I can see Menk playing much more time at 3b, anda priority at the trade deadline to be a legit 3b player, whether an older stop-gap, or a real good prospect.

(The stop-gap guy would come as a throw in with real prospects, just to short circuit the future notes coming my way)

ZM


(1) Mientk is the stop-gap.

(2) Walker is in AAA. The Bucs are likely to draft Pedro Alvarez. Third base is covered.


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