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 Post subject: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:40 pm 
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Don't get me wrong-I kind of like him as a player, and I think he can be a serviceable #3 starter on a competitor, but the concentration lapses just kill him. Often he will dominate an at bat for the first two strikes only to get ripped on a 1-2 pitch. Or he will dominate an inning for the first two outs before a walk and a single open the flood gates. Now today, he labors, but manages to quiet all the Brewer hitters and give up a HR to the opposing pitcher. Oh well... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:03 pm 
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He gave up one run in 7 innings. Blame for the loss cannot possibly be put on him.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:00 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
Don't get me wrong-I kind of like him as a player, and I think he can be a serviceable #3 starter on a competitor, but the concentration lapses just kill him. Often he will dominate an at bat for the first two strikes only to get ripped on a 1-2 pitch. Or he will dominate an inning for the first two outs before a walk and a single open the flood gates. Now today, he labors, but manages to quiet all the Brewer hitters and give up a HR to the opposing pitcher. Oh well... :roll:



GEEZ!

What do you want the guy to do, be perfect??

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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:12 pm 
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That was Yovani Gallardo's 2nd homerun this season and Andy LaRoche doesn't have any. Gallardo gets alot less at bats than LaRoche also. Maybe its just that he can hit to. Believe it or not there are players that can pitch and hit though all managers and fans act like no pitcher in the world can hit just because they are a pitcher.
If there is anybody to blame in this game it is every bat on our team and not Snell. He pitched great. Better than he usually does.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:17 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
He gave up one run in 7 innings. Blame for the loss cannot possibly be put on him.

Yeah, but he did so in quite possibly the most unimpressive way ever. He walked 4 batters and a significant majority of his batted balls were in the air. That's not a typical recipe for success. He is lucky that the Brewers were only able to muster 1 run off of him.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:19 pm 
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Its sad we have not gotten one homerun from 3rd base this year and presumebly that is seen as a power position.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:36 am 
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Animal wrote:
doug frobel wrote:
Don't get me wrong-I kind of like him as a player, and I think he can be a serviceable #3 starter on a competitor, but the concentration lapses just kill him. Often he will dominate an at bat for the first two strikes only to get ripped on a 1-2 pitch. Or he will dominate an inning for the first two outs before a walk and a single open the flood gates. Now today, he labors, but manages to quiet all the Brewer hitters and give up a HR to the opposing pitcher. Oh well... :roll:



GEEZ!

What do you want the guy to do, be perfect??

He gave up a homerun to the opposing pitcher on an 0-2 pitch. I'm not sure there are any circumstances where that's acceptable. Perhaps instances where it is slightly more tolerable, but never in a tie game.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:24 am 
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No, I don't need him to be perfect- I think he can be a heck of a good pitcher for us. He sure was today. It's not THAT he lost, it's HOW he lost that makes me shake my head.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:55 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
He gave up one run in 7 innings. Blame for the loss cannot possibly be put on him.


He can't be blamed for the loss, but Frobel's comments ring true. This guy can't keep his head in to an at bat, let alone a whole game. And as someone else said in this thread it was far from an impressive outing. Too many walks for sure, which leads to high pitch counts. Needs to get mentally tougher for sure....


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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:13 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
He can't be blamed for the loss, but Frobel's comments ring true. This guy can't keep his head in to an at bat, let alone a whole game. And as someone else said in this thread it was far from an impressive outing. Too many walks for sure, which leads to high pitch counts. Needs to get mentally tougher for sure....

Did not watch the game. Notice that Snell threw 131 pitches in 7 innings. I grant that it was not a great outing.

But this Brewers team had scored 16 runs the previous 16 innings against the Pirates pitching staff. Even with his hiccups, Snell gave up one run in 7 innings. He walked four, but HE GAVE UP ONE RUN IN SEVEN INNINGS.

I really am stumped as to how this can be viewed as a failure on Snell's part. And as for giving up the HR to Gallardo 0-2 ... pretty awful. No doubt.

But I can tell you that when a pitcher is forced to be perfect, and knows that one mistake can kill him, he is pitching under tremendous pressure. Going 7 innings under those circumstances and giving up just 1 run is more than doing his job.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:14 pm 
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I haven't figured out his mental makeup yet. Sometimes I think he has what it takes as far as being a competitor, but other times he seems to pout easily and lose focus. Strong between the ears or weak? He is an enigma, or, as I said, just Ian being Ian.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:15 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
He is an enigma, or, as I said, just Ian being Ian.

If "Ian being Ian" involves going 7 innings per start and giving up 1 run, I will take it - right now, no questions asked. Bob freaking Gibson in 1968 is the only pitcher I can think of that posted a better ERA in the modern era.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:30 pm 
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One run is seven innings is fantastic in any game, but especially considering how the Brewers have been hitting. I don't care how he got his outs or how many he walked.

Obviously he missed his spots many times over the couse of the game, as evidenced by the walks. And one of those mistakes got hit over the fence. The other mistakes did not result in runs. I'll take that every time.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:12 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
PirateParrot wrote:
He can't be blamed for the loss, but Frobel's comments ring true. This guy can't keep his head in to an at bat, let alone a whole game. And as someone else said in this thread it was far from an impressive outing. Too many walks for sure, which leads to high pitch counts. Needs to get mentally tougher for sure....

Did not watch the game. Notice that Snell threw 131 pitches in 7 innings. I grant that it was not a great outing.

But this Brewers team had scored 16 runs the previous 16 innings against the Pirates pitching staff. Even with his hiccups, Snell gave up one run in 7 innings. He walked four, but HE GAVE UP ONE RUN IN SEVEN INNINGS.

I really am stumped as to how this can be viewed as a failure on Snell's part. And as for giving up the HR to Gallardo 0-2 ... pretty awful. No doubt.

But I can tell you that when a pitcher is forced to be perfect, and knows that one mistake can kill him, he is pitching under tremendous pressure. Going 7 innings under those circumstances and giving up just 1 run is more than doing his job.

No, it's called getting lucky. Snell was giving up fly ball after fly ball, and he was fortunate that most of those fly balls landed in the gloves of outfielders. He also was giving up free passes to boot, and he wasn't striking out enough to render such free passes excusable. And then, of course, there was the gopherball to the opposing pitcher.

You view the runs as an end product of Snell's pitching, but runs allowed are a product of the defense as a whole, not the pitcher. Snell does not play defense alone; he has eight fielders playing along with him, and on Wednesday those eight made Snell look good. Credit the fielding defense for allowing only 1 run in 7 innings, because Snell was not making it easy for them to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 2:54 am 
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Willton wrote:
No, it's called getting lucky. Snell was giving up fly ball after fly ball, and he was fortunate that most of those fly balls landed in the gloves of outfielders. He also was giving up free passes to boot, and he wasn't striking out enough to render such free passes excusable. And then, of course, there was the gopherball to the opposing pitcher.


He gave up one run in 7 innings. That matters.

Willton wrote:
You view the runs as an end product of Snell's pitching, but runs allowed are a product of the defense as a whole, not the pitcher. Snell does not play defense alone; he has eight fielders playing along with him, and on Wednesday those eight made Snell look good. Credit the fielding defense for allowing only 1 run in 7 innings, because Snell was not making it easy for them to do so.


The defense needs to do the job for every pitcher. Credit the defense ... of course. They did their job. But to ignore Snell's contribution is not credible. Sometimes a pitcher is lucky on a few balls that were hit hard, but Snell accounted for 21 outs. He fanned 5. Of the remaining 16, I do not believe that he "lucked" into more than a couple of outs.


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 Post subject: Re: Ian being Ian
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:14 am 
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I would take one run over seven innings any day. I was simply agreeing with the original post that looking inside the numbers it was a typical Ian "head case" Snell outing. And as Wilton has pointed out, he was lucky that the ball stayed in the yard as much as it did. Plus the 4 walks. You can't deny that he got a bit fortunate. However, you are right that the end results were more than desirable. But how he got to that result was less than impressive.


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