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 Post subject: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:49 am 
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Any oppinions. 2009 bucs??????


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:01 am 
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Without a doubt, 1999.

four games under .500 and there but for the grace of Jason Kendall's shattered ankle, we are in contention.

Young and rising Brian Giles, as well as Aramis Ramirez.

Kris Benson, Jason Schmidt, and Francisco Cordova anchoring the pithcing.

Kendall at his prime.

No question.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:33 am 
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1997 Pirates were in contention until the last week of the season..finished 79-83. The freak show with polcovich, womack, kevin young, kevin elster, randa... pitching was lieber, loaiza, cordova, chris peters. what a run that team made.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:35 am 
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DoeyDoumit wrote:
1997 Pirates were in contention until the last week of the season..finished 79-83. The freak show with polcovich, womack, kevin young, kevin elster, randa... pitching was lieber, loaiza, cordova, chris peters. what a run that team made.


I agree with this. 1997 was the best of the losing teams.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:17 am 
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The 1999 team was a legitimately good team. When Kendall was in the lineup, the Pirates offense featured Kendall, Young, Martin, Giles, Morris ... a bunch of guys who could hit, had high OBP, could hit for some power, steal some bases. Five hitters with an OPS over .815, three with an OPS over .900.

Schmidt, Benson, Ritchie anchoring the rotation. If Kendall stays healthy, the team wins at least 85 games.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:10 am 
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'99 was definitely the best. That was the year we had Ed Sprague at 3rd, I think as our All-Star. Giles had a monster year. Ritchie had a 3.5 ERA and Martin and Young were both 20hr-20sb guys. Kendall also would've shattered the record for SB's for a catcher which I think he set in a different year. He had 22 SB's prior to the injury which I think happened around the 4th of July.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:19 am 
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In 1999 our top pitcher as far as wins go was Schmidt with 13 wasn't it?
Thats not enough to win 85 games no matter how good the bullpen is.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:04 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
In 1999 our top pitcher as far as wins go was Schmidt with 13 wasn't it?
Thats not enough to win 85 games no matter how good the bullpen is.


What?

They won 79 as it was with Kendall gone half the year!


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:18 am 
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Corsair wrote:
Colin21 wrote:
In 1999 our top pitcher as far as wins go was Schmidt with 13 wasn't it?
Thats not enough to win 85 games no matter how good the bullpen is.


What?

They won 79 as it was with Kendall gone half the year!


They won 78 in 1999 and 79 in 1997.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:23 am 
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If we didn't have horrible pitching the 2000 Pirates would be in this dicussion because they scored 793 runs that year and that was the most the Pirates scored since 1940 when they scored 809. Pitching is what killed the Pirates through all these losing seasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:27 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
In 1999 our top pitcher as far as wins go was Schmidt with 13 wasn't it?
Thats not enough to win 85 games no matter how good the bullpen is.

No. Todd Ritchie won 15, Schmidt won 13 and Benson won 11. Three starters with at least 11 wins - they had enough pitching, along with that offense, to win 85 games.

The Kendall injury destroyed the season. The emotional impact was discussed at length by DK. Pirates went from the best offense from the C position in all baseball to the worst (Keith Osik and Joe Oliver were beyond awful).


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:42 am 
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The infield in 1999 had Warren Morris at 2nd base, and Ed Sprague at 3rd...There was plenty of offense that season...losing Kendall killed that team

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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:24 pm 
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Keep in mind, the 1997 team also lost Kevin Young for about 6 weeks.

But there's really no question the 1999 team was better. They scored more runs and had a better ERA+. I like the 1997 team, but they played over their heads most of that season getting offensive production from unlikely guys like Turner Ward, Kevin Polcovich, Mark Smith, and Dale Sveum.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
Corsair wrote:
Colin21 wrote:
In 1999 our top pitcher as far as wins go was Schmidt with 13 wasn't it?
Thats not enough to win 85 games no matter how good the bullpen is.


What?

They won 79 as it was with Kendall gone half the year!


They won 78 in 1999 and 79 in 1997.


OK I was off by one, but my point still stands. All I remember was the magic number for me was 73.

That was the over/under I put a C note on in Vegas in March of that year. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:31 pm 
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The 2003 team should have been the one to break the cycle. That bullpen had no business blowing up the way it did. So completely and so utterly that year.

True leadoff hitter, Kendall and Giles, Reggie... that team scored runs... just not quite as many as the bullpen gave away.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:22 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
The 2003 team should have been the one to break the cycle. That bullpen had no business blowing up the way it did. So completely and so utterly that year.

True leadoff hitter, Kendall and Giles, Reggie... that team scored runs... just not quite as many as the bullpen gave away.

ZM

That team featured Randall Simon at first and Jeff Reboulet at second. Lofton, Giles and Ramirez were all dealt in the summer.

No way that team wins 85+ games.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pirate team in last 15 years?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:24 pm 
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Hope springs eternal. With the pitching under Kerrigan (and Dumatrait and Gorzellany in the wings??) and with the changes in the team that are surely coming by June - or July 31 (McCutcheon, trades) could this team turn out to be the best since we had a winning season? Pitching is the most important factor, and so far (yeah, it's early - only 7 games) there is hope. Why not?


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