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 Post subject: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:43 pm 
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Duke pitched brilliantly today, based on the box score. I will have the pleasure of watching his performance on the recorded broadcast of the game.

However, I am curious as to how we feel about Duke being sent out to pitch the 9th. He had thrown 107 pitches by that point. It is a looooong season, and throwing 119 pitches this early causes me some concern.

I am not going to lambaste Russell, since he was obviously asking Duke how he felt. However, a pitcher given a 6-0 lead in the 4th inning, and dealing zeroes, will say he feels "great" even if his arm is on fire.

Last year, Duke threw 116 pitches in his first two starts, against the Braves and Cubs. He really struggled the second half ... not sure if these two facts are related, but I am concerned that Duke may get "Dustied" because he has such an easy motion and lulls the manager into thinking he can throw 120 pitches per game.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:52 pm 
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I told my wife in the 7th inning that he wouldn't be back...that was as Grabow was warming up in the pen. I was really shocked to see him come out in the 8th and again in the 9th.

As Rocco said on the post game show, no high pressure situations though and there wasn't one particular inning where he had a heavy work load. Perhaps that factored into Russel & Duke's decision to go the full game today.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:53 pm 
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I was very surprised he batted for himself in the 7th. I thought a 6-0 lead was a good excuse to get Veal some pressure free IPs.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:06 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:

However, I am curious as to how we feel about Duke being sent out to pitch the 9th. He had thrown 107 pitches by that point...


From my (various) veiwpoints around the park today, it was because Duke was so efficient in the 7th and again in the 8th. I was sure he was coming out after the 8th, but I think he threw only 6 pitches in the inning. Preceeded by, I think, 8 or 9 in the 7th.

So, he didn't struggle in the late innings, and according to the new velocity board (mph leaving, mph at 40 ft, mph at plate, break [in inches]), he was still at the same velocities and break (89, 89, 81, 13, BTW).

So, I think JR let him try to finish, and ... he did.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:10 pm 
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Speaking of the velocity board...

What did you all think of that?


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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:11 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
So, he didn't struggle in the late innings, and according to the new velocity board (mph leaving, mph at 40 ft, mph at plate, break [in inches]), he was still at the same velocities and break (89, 89, 81, 13, BTW) ZM


Neat toy.
I think that it would be an interesting psychological study of how that type of information is viewed, interpreted and digested by players on the bench, hitters on deck and hitters in the box.
I also wonder if the data could somehow be manipulated and used to advantage the home team (i.e.; exagerrate the break for the home pitcher).
Good stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:19 pm 
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Like Cappscrew, I was shocked he hit in the 7th. My daughter is a huge Duke fan, and I told her that his day would be done. I was shocked. But I am happy for him. He is young and he did not labor. He was still strong up to the end. I think he deserved the shot at the shutout, and I think it was good for the fans.

Speaking of Duke, he pitched a great game, but had a great all around game...a double, couple of sac bunts. Nice guy. He deserves all the success he gets!

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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:22 pm 
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I just watched the highlights of the game. Scary moment when McLouth crashed into the wall ... I've seen a very similar run and crash put guys out for quite a while ... thank God he was okay and winded up with a hit on the day he was honored with the Gold Glove. Unfortunately the MLB highlights only have about a 10 second clip of it, but regardless great to see. Hopefully Doumit and Adam LaRoche can continue these games in which they both homer. Also, has Morgan had a hit in every game thus far? Perhaps he's trying to break the hitting streak Nate started out with last year ... how many was that?

Simply delightful to see the Pirates put together a string of solid starts by pitchers.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:26 pm 
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Quote:
Also, has Morgan had a hit in every game thus far? Perhaps he's trying to break the hitting streak Nate started out with last year ... how many was that?



NO. He went 0-4 on April 9th, the day the Bucs were 1-hit. But he did drive in a run that day.

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Last edited by Animal on Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:30 pm 
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Ah that's right ... the Carpenter game had escaped me. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:47 pm 
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There is validity to the point that Duke did not have a 20-pitch inning, or have to labor with runners on base. He was given an early lead, threw strikes, and had a pretty easy 8th and 9th.

And he deserves his chance for a shut-out. Duke now is tied for the league lead in shut-outs and complete games, with 1. (Unfortunately, one of the guys he is tied with is Aaron Harang.)

Buuuuut ... 162 games is a lot. Duke is going to be called on to start 5-6 games in September. I think it advisable to make sure that he retains his good health, since Duke stated this spring that he felt healthier and stronger than he had for quite a while.

The results when he feels good speak for themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:50 pm 
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Oh, I forgot the walk. Zach also drew a walk when he was intending to bunt.

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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:20 pm 
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Animal wrote:
Oh, I forgot the walk. Zach also drew a walk when he was intending to bunt.

Of course they walked him ... he launched a double to center field the previous at bat. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:27 pm 
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cappscrew138 wrote:
Speaking of the velocity board...

What did you all think of that?


If it were at all valid, I would think it a great thing for baseball fans. BUT, I know that all of Duke's fastballs were NOT breaking 13 inches, as it would suggest. If you can throw a fastball with that much movement, you'd be racking up a ton of K's and a ton of no-hitters. Duke, while looking impressive, is doing neither.

Maybe they are fixable bugs, but more likely I think the technology isn't quite there yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:13 pm 
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I agree totally with the original poster. That's an unforgivable managerial decision this early in the season. It doesn't matter if Duke didn't throw more than 20 pitches in an inning, it's the pitch count in the entire outing that matters, and there's pretty significant evidence that every pitch over 100 is exponentially more damaging than the one before. There's just no reason he should have thrown more than 100 pitches with a six run lead.

The way I see it, some of the clowns in the bullpen are expendable, so they can be worked to death in non-pressure situations, such as today's game. But if NH's plan to put a decent team on the field is to become a reality, Zach Duke will be essential. JR shouldn't be jeopardizing that.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:22 am 
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BBF wrote:
cappscrew138 wrote:
Speaking of the velocity board...

What did you all think of that?


If it were at all valid, I would think it a great thing for baseball fans. BUT, I know that all of Duke's fastballs were NOT breaking 13 inches, as it would suggest. If you can throw a fastball with that much movement, you'd be racking up a ton of K's and a ton of no-hitters. Duke, while looking impressive, is doing neither.

Maybe they are fixable bugs, but more likely I think the technology isn't quite there yet.


Agree with you BBF.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:11 am 
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BBF wrote:
BUT, I know that all of Duke's fastballs were NOT breaking 13 inches, as it would suggest...


I would suggest that this was not a fastball.

The fastballs that I saw on the board, were showing a break of 2 or 3 inches.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:13 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
BBF wrote:
BUT, I know that all of Duke's fastballs were NOT breaking 13 inches, as it would suggest...


I would suggest that this was not a fastball.

The fastballs that I saw on the board, were showing a break of 2 or 3 inches.

ZM


You actually saw break that wasn't 10+ inches? I wasn't tracking every pitch, but it seemed every time I looked it was a 12 inch break.


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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:15 am 
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Yeah, I did. The trakker didn't seem to follow every pitch though. More like every other to me. More or less.

I agree that the technology will need tweaked.

But then again, maybe we are learning something about MLB pitching in terms of consistency. Or, maybe not.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Complete game effort?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:16 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Yeah, I did. The trakker didn't seem to follow every pitch though. More like every other to me. More or less.

I agree that the technology will need tweaked.

But then again, maybe we are learning something about MLB pitching in terms of consistency. Or, maybe not.

ZM


Well then, I believe you.


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