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 Post subject: Interesting factoid
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 10:16 am 
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I was looking over the Pirate's pitching stats this morning and this jumped out at me......the current Pirate starters have a cumulative record of 10-13. Not great, certainly, but not awful either. However, the only starter who has given up less hits than innings pitched is Gorzo, mostly because he has walked so many.

But the real big thing that jumped out was that the current relievers have a record of 10-2.

So what was supposed to be a strength has been a weakness and what was supposed to be a weakness has been a strength.

The bottom line is that the current staff has a record of 20-15, which is pretty darn good.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting factoid
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 2:14 pm 
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bradf wrote:
I was looking over the Pirate's pitching stats this morning and this jumped out at me......the current Pirate starters have a cumulative record of 10-13. Not great, certainly, but not awful either. However, the only starter who has given up less hits than innings pitched is Gorzo, mostly because he has walked so many.

But the real big thing that jumped out was that the current relievers have a record of 10-2.

So what was supposed to be a strength has been a weakness and what was supposed to be a weakness has been a strength.

The bottom line is that the current staff has a record of 20-15, which is pretty darn good.

Hmm, that seems to run in stark contrast to the fact that the Pirates are 16th in the NL in runs allowed. Yes, that's right: the Pirates pitching staff is the worst in the NL.

That's why pitcher wins and losses are misleading and useless.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting factoid
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:05 pm 
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Econo, pitcher wins and losses are meaningless, I agree. But Brad presented the total STAFF wins and losses, more specifically CURRENT staff wins and losses. I think his point was (and maybe I am wrong) our current staff is a lot better now that we have cut Morris and Meek and didn't let Vanbenscrotum screw around too long.


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting factoid
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 9:43 pm 
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That was precisely my point, as evidenced by the frequent references to "current" in my original post. Secondly, I was trying to point out the unexpected effectiveness of the bullpen, which was thought to be a weakness, and now looks like a strength. Thirdly, while I understand your point about wins and losses being sometimes misleading in terms of overall effectiveness, I don't agree that they are meaningless. We still award playoff berths based on wins and losses, not ERA or strikeouts per innings pitched or number of change-ups thrown for strikes to left-handed batters on Thursday afternoon games. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting factoid
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:43 am 
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bradf wrote:
That was precisely my point, as evidenced by the frequent references to "current" in my original post. Secondly, I was trying to point out the unexpected effectiveness of the bullpen, which was thought to be a weakness, and now looks like a strength. Thirdly, while I understand your point about wins and losses being sometimes misleading in terms of overall effectiveness, I don't agree that they are meaningless. We still award playoff berths based on wins and losses, not ERA or strikeouts per innings pitched or number of change-ups thrown for strikes to left-handed batters on Thursday afternoon games. :)

Team wins an losses mean something. Pitcher wins and losses are arbitrary, and do not reflect performance. A pitcher's job is not to win games, it's to keep runs from scoring, and he can't even do that without the help of his defense.

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