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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:30 pm 
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Wow, I actually feel funky.



They say Irish Spring can deal with that...

Good win Bucs. I really liked that Capps showed a breaking ball, and varied speeds to get early strikes. Then, boom, ran up the ladder with a hard fastball for strike 3! Love it when they do that.

Someone want to explain to me, again, how good closers are a "luxury"?

Overall:

1. Maholm was efficient, and tough, limiting damage in one inning, and throwing -25 pitches to move things along. That was not an effort of a "No. 4" starter.

2. Nyger 3-5, but still can't judge a fly ball. Maybe it was the wind though, StL OF were all over the place trying to catch the ball.

3. Moss... relax... relax... you have a canon for an arm, no need to rush around in the field and at the plate.

4. Andy... you looked like you did last year.

5. Adam... the 9th may break your head out of the funk.

6. Yates/Grabow.. ugh Get your acts together.

7. Nice job Capps. More "pitching" going on.

8. Doumit/McClouth - last year is last year. Its this year.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:33 pm 
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8. Doumit/McClouth - last year is last year. Its this year.


I don't think there is any need to worry about Doumit but as far as McClouth i wont say i worry but i will say i leave the reason for concern open.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:37 pm 
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Capps mixed his pitches up better than I have ever seen. I heard him talk about working on his change up and he used it well today. He also opened up one of the hitters with 2 straight sliders. Nice job Matt. Today, the offense saved the relief pitching and the defense, both of which were subpar.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:45 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
2. Nyger 3-5, but still can't judge a fly ball. Maybe it was the wind though, StL OF were all over the place trying to catch the ball.


No, he just ain't that good. I almost had a heart attack when he froze like a dear in headlights on Ryan's lazy fly out in the 8th. He had a few poor routes earlier as well.

ZelieMike wrote:
4. Andy... you looked like you did last year.


Hey, give him a break, he's on pace to score 162 runs this year. He walked in 4 PAs.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:53 pm 
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Andy is going to make Perry Hill earn his paycheck...

or, put him in an early grave!

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:55 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Andy is going to make Perry Hill earn his paycheck...

or, put him in an early grave!

ZM


Andy is a minor leaguer for life. He will be a journeymen soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:33 pm 
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Look it was a great way to start the season. Yes, it was in many ways sloppy, but that was true both ways and after all it is the first game. For many of our guys it was a nervous time trying too hard to prove they're the right player for us. You can't and shouldn't start the let's get rid of so and so... already. Like the players, some of us need to relax. We need to develop, not throw people to the dogs now.

Repeat--- it was a great way to start the season. We haven't locked up the series yet so let's stay with our young guys and share their pain as they develop.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:57 pm 
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Good job, Buccos. I was in lawyer hell for 8 hours - deposition on a business dispute - and read the game commentaries without knowing the final score. It was pretty funny to see Adam Laroche lampooned, followed by, "Way to go Adam!" Then, "Wilson sucks," followed immediately by, "Jack! Yes!"

This is why managers and baseball front office personnel wait for a significant sample to reach conclusions about a player. An emotional reaction in a key situation can lead to incorrect decisions about a player.

I enjoyed the commentary. Good job. I felt like I was involved.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:16 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Andy is going to make Perry Hill earn his paycheck...

or, put him in an early grave!

ZM


Andy is a minor leaguer for life. He will be a journeymen soon.


Jumping to conclusions pretty early there my friend, its only game one...

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:49 am 
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nad69dan wrote:
Colin21 wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Andy is going to make Perry Hill earn his paycheck...

or, put him in an early grave!

ZM


Andy is a minor leaguer for life. He will be a journeymen soon.


Jumping to conclusions pretty early there my friend, its only game one...


I've been saying this about him since he was with the Dodgers. I have never thought very much of Andy LaRoche. I do however like Jack Wilson i was just infuriated with his performance up to the point of his big hit. I think the weather had alot do to with all the errors except for Brandon Moss, I still can't figure out what he was doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:58 am 
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That throw from Moss from RF to home came real close to hitting Skip going back to 1st base...I had to laugh a little at that, I'm sure trying to see where the ball was from Doumit's point of view had to have been hard...

Andy's numbers in the minors are pretty good, its still too early to get down on him yet...

Of all the things in that game I cant believe the day Morgan had...

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:59 pm 
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This game is one of our season highlights, already. Down to the last strike and Jack Wilson (who was slammed in the off-season by, of all things, The Onion) clears the bases. Sure, you could chalk it up to wildness from Motte, but we'll take it.

Oh, and I absolutely HATE Al Hrabosky on the stick. He's still one of the most condescending announcers around. His latest was: "Maholm would maybe be a #4 or #5 starter on any other team". C'mon, Maholm's not going to win a Cy Young anytime soon, but have at least some level of respect for the opponent. Just "he's probably their best starter" would've worked. And quit answering trivia questions, you tool.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:27 pm 
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eStragand wrote:
Oh, and I absolutely HATE Al Hrabosky on the stick. He's still one of the most condescending announcers around. His latest was: "Maholm would maybe be a #4 or #5 starter on any other team".


That quote irked me as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:43 pm 
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Why? I mean we have plenty here that say the same thing. If you look at his physical makeup, fastball, etc, you can make that arguement.

If you see his mental makeup, consistancy, efficiency and general "toughness", you recognize he's better than that.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:16 pm 
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I didn't get to see the game until the 7th ... could some describe Andy's errors?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:46 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Why? I mean we have plenty here that say the same thing. If you look at his physical makeup, fastball, etc, you can make that arguement. ZM

I do not agree, at all. I understand that you do not agree with the comment, by the way (see, I "get it"), but your observation is not an accurate portrayal of Maholm's pitching. The guy throws a power 2-seam at 90 mph. He has a plus curve. His 4-seam hits 92-93 mph pretty regularly.

Maholm won me over when I saw him in a game against the Mets in 2007. He was pounding the strike zone and hitting 90-93 mph all game. It was clear to me that the guy is a talented pitcher.

I seriously do not get why some supposed baseball "experts" criticize Maholm's "stuff." Those who do have probably not seen him pitch a game. They just repeat the same inaccurate, flawed mantra that others have spouted.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:06 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Why? I mean we have plenty here that say the same thing. If you look at his physical makeup, fastball, etc, you can make that arguement. ZM

I do not agree, at all. I understand that you do not agree with the comment, by the way (see, I "get it"), but your observation is not an accurate portrayal of Maholm's pitching. The guy throws a power 2-seam at 90 mph. He has a plus curve. His 4-seam hits 92-93 mph pretty regularly.

Maholm won me over when I saw him in a game against the Mets in 2007. He was pounding the strike zone and hitting 90-93 mph all game. It was clear to me that the guy is a talented pitcher.

I seriously do not get why some supposed baseball "experts" criticize Maholm's "stuff." Those who do have probably not seen him pitch a game. They just repeat the same inaccurate, flawed mantra that others have spouted.


I would argue that the 3 most important stats for a pitcher are strikeout rate, walk rate, and groundball:flyball ratio. Paul is very good at 2 out of those 3. You wouldn't have to even see him pitch to conclude he is a good pitcher.

But the fact is that for whatever reason, an "ace" is often defined as someone who also posts big strikeout numbers. Maholm will never be that guy, and as such will never get that label. But he is certainly better than a #4 starter.

And to think just over a year ago, certain people believed he wasn't even a #5 starter on an average team....


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:16 pm 
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BBF wrote:
But the fact is that for whatever reason, an "ace" is often defined as someone who also posts big strikeout numbers. Maholm will never be that guy, and as such will never get that label.

True enough, but his K rate was 6.1/9 innings last year. That K rate is generally regarded as being high enough to show that the pitcher has "swing and miss" potential. Though Maholm is not going to fan a batter an inning, I expect that he will have Glavine-like K rates, of 6-7 per 9 innings. That is certainly enough for a guy to be a top-of-the-rotation starter.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:19 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
I seriously do not get why some supposed baseball "experts" criticize Maholm's "stuff." Those who do have probably not seen him pitch a game. They just repeat the same inaccurate, flawed mantra that others have spouted.


For goodness sake, Bucfan, you should know by now that watching a game is just being 'romantic'. To understand it you have to look at the stats - a box score will tell you the reality.
What on earth can you judge with your rose-tinted spectacles?

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates at Cardinals Opening Day Lineup...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:25 pm 
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"If you watched Greg Maddux on a night when he was really dominant, he threw about 90 pitches and wasn't really on the field that long," Walk said. "It does become boring. It's frustrating for the hitters. They don't feel they were overmatched and they got some good swings, but they didn't get any hits. They were just a little behind, a little out in front, pounding the ball into the ground all the time.

"That's Paul Maholm. When he's on, that's his style. For me, I don't get bored watching that."


I don't get bored watching it either Bob.


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