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 Post subject: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:32 pm 
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As of this morning, there were at least 24 free agents left on the board that would figure to contribute significantly to a major league team. By my conservative count. How do you all see this playing out? The MLBPA said last week they are prepared to put together a ST for all of these unclaimed players. Will that be necessary? Also, how many more of these players can the big 6 scoop up? Some of these guys have to sign with some non-contending teams. Will there be a huge flury at the last minute? As far as pitchers and catchers go, aren't we past the last minute?


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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:21 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
As of this morning, there were at least 24 free agents left on the board that would figure to contribute significantly to a major league team. By my conservative count. How do you all see this playing out? The MLBPA said last week they are prepared to put together a ST for all of these unclaimed players. Will that be necessary? Also, how many more of these players can the big 6 scoop up? Some of these guys have to sign with some non-contending teams. Will there be a huge flury at the last minute? As far as pitchers and catchers go, aren't we past the last minute?


Prices are going to have to come down. There just aren't that many buyers for the players available. So the bargains are going to lure buyers off the sidelines. Teams like the Pirates.

I don't expect a huge flurry at the last minute, whatever the last minute is. There is still a lot of time before the season begins, and a few players will sign after the season starts. I expect signings a little at a time as February and March progress.

The camp for unsigned players is happening, in Bradenton. No idea how many players will show up. Probably not that many.

But the Dodgers and Yankees and any other teams committed to staying under the luxury tax threshold are not going to be swayed. They've drawn their line in the sand, and it's at 197 million.


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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Lure the Pirates off the bench? Lets look

Lucroy - C- Nope, they have their catchers
Hosmer -1st - Nope
Walker - 2nd - been there, done that
Moustakas - 3rd - betting on Moran
Nunez - ss - not just no
J.D. Martinez - LF- Ha!
Suzuki - OF- He's only 44
Bautista - RF - He'd retire first
Arrieta - RHP - Yeah? well, no
Vargas - LHP - If there was anyone....8mil+....no
Holland - cls- Dont need
Cobb and Lynn - rhp - We have enough crappy right handers
Morrison - 1st - Dont need him
Holland - RHRP - bull pen is set

Gonzo and gomez are over priced yawns. My guess is that aside some guys you will need to look up to figure out who he is, the bucs are all set.

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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:27 pm 
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The 2 weakest positions on the team and the easiest to upgrade are C and LF. Personally, I think Luplow is going to do a very good job in LF, once he forces his way onto the field and out of Clint Hurdle's "rookies don't play" jail.

The upgrade is thereby at C. Team slept through an easy, affordable improvement of 2 wins by letting the D'Bags sign Avila. Lucroy's offensive decline last season makes him affordable and interesting. It's not just pitchers who are a lot better than their baseball card numbers suggest.

Lucroy had a low K rate, but an unusually low BABIP last year. His defense remains excellent. He is a 2.0 C with uninspiring hitting, and a 3.5 C if he hits anywhere close to 2016.

Lucroy is affordable, a very good defensive C, and an upgrade at low cost. And it's not like he would be standing in the way of a highly-ranked prospect. Pirates really have nothing in the minors at C, apart from, I guess, Stallings.


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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Where's Melky on this list? Someone sign him? One year comeback with an option. Prove it a fluke Melky and got and get big money again.

What did I miss?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:13 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Where's Melky on this list? Someone sign him? One year comeback with an option. Prove it a fluke Melky and got and get big money again. What did I miss?

ZM

The Pirates have been linked to Cabrera, and I would not freak out about his signing, but here is my issue. The Pirates have a young outfielder who was really, really good last year.

Is he going to be a 25 HR, 100 RBI, .270/.350/.500 guy? Who the @#$% knows unless he plays, and if Hurdle has a 36-year old wth a very long history, he will play.

No matter that the young OF'er is going to be here in 2024 and will matter, while Melky Cabrera will have long ago retired.

Play promising young talent at this point. Why not?!?

I push for signing Lucroy in large - sole - part because the Pirates don't have a good young catcher. Sorry, Elias Diaz is not a prospect and not good. If the Pirates had a C prospect equivalent to Luplow, I would not want to sign Lucroy.


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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:41 am 
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Quote:
I push for signing Lucroy in large - sole - part because the Pirates don't have a good young catcher. Sorry, Elias Diaz is not a prospect and not good. If the Pirates had a C prospect equivalent to Luplow, I would not want to sign Lucroy.


Yeah but the money doesn't see it that way. The money see's Cervelli as the talent and Diaz as the Sunday catcher. The money doesnt ever pay talent to sit. So the money cant justify both Cervelli and Lucroy. Just the way it is. However Chris Stewart might be willing to play Sundays for next to nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:15 am 
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The Rotten One wrote:
Quote:
I push for signing Lucroy in large - sole - part because the Pirates don't have a good young catcher. Sorry, Elias Diaz is not a prospect and not good. If the Pirates had a C prospect equivalent to Luplow, I would not want to sign Lucroy.


Yeah but the money doesn't see it that way. The money see's Cervelli as the talent and Diaz as the Sunday catcher. The money doesnt ever pay talent to sit. So the money cant justify both Cervelli and Lucroy. Just the way it is. However Chris Stewart might be willing to play Sundays for next to nothing.


Did you really just recommend signing Stewart to replace Diaz? That is crazy. Stewart will have to retire.

I like the Lucroy idea, but would be shocked if the Pirates signed him. I think Huntington has a higher opinion of Cervelli than everyone else does.


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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:46 am 
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Cervelli's bat blows but so did Lucroy's for a good portion of the year. They're comparable defensively per Baseball Prospectus metrics (which are by far the best for catchers).


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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:50 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
The Rotten One wrote:
Quote:
I push for signing Lucroy in large - sole - part because the Pirates don't have a good young catcher. Sorry, Elias Diaz is not a prospect and not good. If the Pirates had a C prospect equivalent to Luplow, I would not want to sign Lucroy.


Yeah but the money doesn't see it that way. The money see's Cervelli as the talent and Diaz as the Sunday catcher. The money doesnt ever pay talent to sit. So the money cant justify both Cervelli and Lucroy. Just the way it is.
However Chris Stewart might be willing to play Sundays for next to nothing
.<------- SARCASM ALERT....SARCASM ALERT....THIS IS NOT A DRILL......THIS IS ACTUAL SARCASM.....SARCASM ALERT......


Did you really just recommend signing Stewart to replace Diaz? That is crazy. Stewart will have to retire. <-------DAMMIT RALPHIE, C'MON!

I like the Lucroy idea, but would be shocked if the Pirates signed him. I think Huntington has a higher opinion of Cervelli than everyone else does.

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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:01 pm 
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I guess I was confused right off the bat, with all that talk about what the money was or wasn't going to do.

Cervelli's contract doesn't mean he has to play every day. He has shown that he can't handle that. It's not about the money. It's about making best use of your resources with the options available to you. Or at least it should be.


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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:54 pm 
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Quote:
Cervelli's contract doesn't mean he has to play every day.


Oh Im sure it does! Cervelli will do whatever they tell him to do. If Nutting thought he could get a buck and a quarter on dollar hot dog day by making the players sell hotdogs from the end of the dugout, it would be on. (Shhhhhhhh! Dont tell him. He just hasn't thought of it yet)
Of course in Cervellis case it would be small bowls of generic pasta and Giant Eagle canned spaghetti sauce.( no meat) <---PROFILING ALERT...PROFILING ALERT.....

CONTINUED PROFILING ALERT..------>Of course Polanco and Marte standing on the dugout yelling; "consigue tu taco, consigue tus tacos aquí!" wont go over very well in Pittsburgh. Or will it? Seems Pirates fans will buy anything

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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:13 pm 
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The Rotten One wrote:
Quote:
Cervelli's contract doesn't mean he has to play every day.


Oh Im sure it does! Cervelli will do whatever they tell him to do. If Nutting thought he could get a buck and a quarter on dollar hot dog day by making the players sell hotdogs from the end of the dugout, it would be on. (Shhhhhhhh! Dont tell him. He just hasn't thought of it yet)
Of course in Cervellis case it would be small bowls of generic pasta and Giant Eagle canned spaghetti sauce.( no meat) <---PROFILING ALERT...PROFILING ALERT.....

CONTINUED PROFILING ALERT..------>Of course Polanco and Marte standing on the dugout yelling; "consigue tu taco, consigue tus tacos aquí!" wont go over very well in Pittsburgh. Or will it? Seems Pirates fans will buy anything


Cervelli was born and played baseball in Venezuela. He is only half Italian, at most.

Marte and Polanco are Dominican. Tacos are Mexican.

If you're going to make terribly immature and unnecessary jokes, at least get your racial profiling right. Better yet, just don't make the 'jokes'.

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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:32 pm 
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Since my joke obviously offended, and it was a joke, I apologize. I dont have a problem with Italians or specifically Cervelli, (other than the fact that it takes a really strong tail wind for him to hit a home run) And my only problem with Marte and Polanco is one cant stand up and catch a flyball and the other is hurt half the season.

I am not a racial profiler and I am not a female harasser. I'll leave those to the President. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:01 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
Cervelli's bat blows but so did Lucroy's for a good portion of the year. They're comparable defensively per Baseball Prospectus metrics (which are by far the best for catchers).


Not when he's healthy, it doesn't. Granted...

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:11 am 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
The Rotten One wrote:
Quote:
Cervelli's contract doesn't mean he has to play every day.


Oh Im sure it does! Cervelli will do whatever they tell him to do. If Nutting thought he could get a buck and a quarter on dollar hot dog day by making the players sell hotdogs from the end of the dugout, it would be on. (Shhhhhhhh! Dont tell him. He just hasn't thought of it yet)
Of course in Cervellis case it would be small bowls of generic pasta and Giant Eagle canned spaghetti sauce.( no meat) <---PROFILING ALERT...PROFILING ALERT.....

CONTINUED PROFILING ALERT..------>Of course Polanco and Marte standing on the dugout yelling; "consigue tu taco, consigue tus tacos aquí!" wont go over very well in Pittsburgh. Or will it? Seems Pirates fans will buy anything


Cervelli was born and played baseball in Venezuela. He is only half Italian, at most.

Marte and Polanco are Dominican. Tacos are Mexican.

If you're going to make terribly immature and unnecessary jokes, at least get your racial profiling right. Better yet, just don't make the 'jokes'.


It was just a joke man, relax.

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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
It was just a joke man, relax.


Not all jokes are funny, especially from the mouths of inexperienced comedians.

There's a difference between Richard Burton and a baby reading Shakespeare.

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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:23 pm 
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So I came up with 32 free agents that, to me, would figure to contribute to a major league club this year. I didn't even include very many bullpen guys, who are pretty unpredictable, unless they have a great track record. I didn't include Jason Werth and guys like him, who are kind of done, and who will likely only get a minor league contract. I think you could literally field two decent teams out of the player who are left. And it's Valentine's Day, the approximate(traditional) start date of pitchers and catchers.

I have:

Jake Arrieta
Jose Bautista
Melky Cabrera
Andrew Cashner
Alex Cobb
Lucas Duda
Jarrod Dyson
Yunel Escobar
Jaime Garcia
Carlos Gomez
Carlos Gonzalez
Jeremy Hellickson
Eric Hosmer
Jon Jay
Adam Lind
Jonathan Lucroy
Lance Lynn
JD Martinez
Wade Miley
Logan Morrison
Mike Moustakaus
Mike Napoli
Eduardo Nunez
Brandon Phillips
Mark Reynolds
Seth Smith
Huston Street
Chris Tillman
Koji Uehara
Danny Valencia
Jason Vargas
Neil Walker

I've never seen this many competent major leaguers looking for work this close to the start of a season.


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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:56 pm 
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The trend in MLB recently has been versatility. I wondered about Neil Walker. He played some 3rd and 1st last year. Do you think he'd want to come back after how he was treated here? Would Huntington want him?

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 Post subject: Re: So When Does This Madness End?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:10 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
I've never seen this many competent major leaguers looking for work this close to the start of a season.


J.D., Hosmer, Mous, Lance Lynn and Vargas are the most egregious*. They all had 2+ WAR seasons in 2016. The problem is that three of them are leaving a notoriously cheap team. So their market value was already going to be limited knowing that their former employers weren't in the mix above a 'home town discount'.

Most of the other guys are older**, coming off of 'bad' years, or have a history of being near replacement-level***. The analytics are likely telling 'savvy' and 'smart' GMs to stay away so they outsmarting themselves. They're actually being so 'smart' that they may be creating a market inefficiency.

It will be interesting to see how or if this many quality FAs redefines 'replacement level'.



*a case could also be made for Logan Morrison, as he's only 30 and coming off of 3.6 WAR season. The problem is that he doesn't have a consistent history and Tampa was never likely to pay him. Jarrod Dyson is also worthy of a ML spot for his defense alone.

**such as Joey Bats, who would also likely lose value outside of that Toronto lineup

***Jeremy Hellickson is a prime example; he was never more than a #4/5 guy and a his ERA/FIP prove it. He's not worth dropping significant investment in; he's really only worth a filler until you can bring up the young arm or acquire someone better.

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