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 Post subject: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Okay, this guy is not on board with what the Marlins are doing in South Florida, and he wants out. If the Bucs had an ownership group interested in winning, they should be pursuing him. Two or three good prospects should get it done. It would lengthen the lineup nicely.


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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:06 pm 
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Agreed.

Not sure he fits what the Pirates are going after, that the Pirates fit what Realmuto is looking for, or that Miami wants to deal him.

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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:12 pm 
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I'm not sure he fits what the Pirates are going after either. You know why? Because I don't know what the Pirates are going after. Your point is well taken, though.


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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:57 pm 
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Yelich wants out and I'd rather have him.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:11 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Yelich wants out and I'd rather have him.

ZM


Yelich would be interesting. A major upgrade of Cutch.


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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:00 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Yelich wants out and I'd rather have him.

ZM


AGREED.

Both would be better.

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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:02 am 
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Which is less?

Yelich wanting to be a Pirate or the Pirates wanting Yelich to be a pirate?

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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:41 pm 
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The prospect of getting both of them would possibly be enough to loosen my grip on Mitch Keller and Austin Meadows if I were GM.


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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:33 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Yelich wants out and I'd rather have him.

ZM


AGREED.

Both would be better.


Production-wise or contract-wise? I ask that because I don't really think that "on the field", Yelich is better. Now, if your talking about age/contract, then I'll agree with you because you're getting good production for another 3 or 4 more years.


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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:52 pm 
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TBayXXXVII wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Yelich wants out and I'd rather have him.

ZM


AGREED.

Both would be better.


Production-wise or contract-wise? I ask that because I don't really think that "on the field", Yelich is better. Now, if your talking about age/contract, then I'll agree with you because you're getting good production for another 3 or 4 more years.


Well if comparing Cutch to Yelich

Cutch had 88 RBI with a 279/363/486 slash and a 2.5 WAR
Yelich had 81 RBI with a 282/369/439 slash and a 3.9 WAR

So offensively they are virtually the same of course arguments can be made about lineup protection in Florida vs Pittsburgh in 2017 however for every guy that claims it's a big deal you'll find one that doesn't.

The difference comes where the defense is concerned, Yelich is heads and shoulders above Cutch.


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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:58 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
TBayXXXVII wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
AGREED.

Both would be better.


Production-wise or contract-wise? I ask that because I don't really think that "on the field", Yelich is better. Now, if your talking about age/contract, then I'll agree with you because you're getting good production for another 3 or 4 more years.


Well if comparing Cutch to Yelich

Cutch had 88 RBI with a 279/363/486 slash and a 2.5 WAR
Yelich had 81 RBI with a 282/369/439 slash and a 3.9 WAR

So offensively they are virtually the same of course arguments can be made about lineup protection in Florida vs Pittsburgh in 2017 however for every guy that claims it's a big deal you'll find one that doesn't.

The difference comes where the defense is concerned, Yelich is heads and shoulders above Cutch.


And Yelich is five years younger than Cutch. 26 is when Cutch had his MVP year.

As for Realmuto, the 'deal breaker' is likely to be defensive skills and contract. J.T. will be arb eligible soon. At least with Cervelli, when healthy, he is (or was) known for his defensive skills.

I'd still make a move for both of them. It's the kind of move that could get the fans back AND probably make this a playoff-caliber team.

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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:

And Yelich is five years younger than Cutch. 26 is when Cutch had his MVP year.

As for Realmuto, the 'deal breaker' is likely to be defensive skills and contract. J.T. will be arb eligible soon. At least with Cervelli, when healthy, he is (or was) known for his defensive skills.

I'd still make a move for both of them. It's the kind of move that could get the fans back AND probably make this a playoff-caliber team.


Adding Yelich would give you Cutch like performance with a boost in defense. I think Moran will be pretty good at 3B and be an upgrade over what we had in 2017. Don't count out Musgrove to at a minimum give you what Cole gave in 2017, which isn't setting the bar very high. The Bullpen should be one of the best in the league if not the best.


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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:29 pm 
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You guys may be right about Yelich, but I'm skeptical. Last year he was "adequate" at the plate hitting between Ozuna and Stanton for a bulk of the season and was at .755 OPS (and less), in 4 of the 6 months. He had a monster July and an excellent August, the rest of the year he was "fine". In our lineup, how would he be between Marte (who may not be better than Ozuna), and Bell who is still not developed? That's a huge downgrade in lineup potential Yelich would be switching to. I believe Yelich will really struggle this season in Miami. I do believe he'd do better here... but I think his performance in Pittsburgh this year would be less than it was in Miami last year and less than what McCutchen will be in SF this year.

Defensively, the Marlins ballpark (centerfield), is way smaller than our left field. I'm a little cautious when looking at defensive metrics because they look too subjective. But, last year Yelich as a -5 in runs saved where as Cutch was -15. He'd would likely be playing in LF if he were here and I'm not so sure that Yelich would really be all that much of an upgrade. Would he be a legit starter? Absolutely. But I'd temper my expectations on whether he'd be an upgrade over McCutchen.

In terms of years/control, yeah, he's clearly an upgrade there, but I think his biggest upgrade overall would be over Polanco IF Meadows earns a spot in Pittsburgh this season. Polanco has been very disappointing.


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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:36 pm 
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TBayXXXVII wrote:
You guys may be right about Yelich, but I'm skeptical. Last year he was "adequate" at the plate hitting between Ozuna and Stanton for a bulk of the season and was at .755 OPS (and less), in 4 of the 6 months. He had a monster July and an excellent August, the rest of the year he was "fine". In our lineup, how would he be between Marte (who may not be better than Ozuna), and Bell who is still not developed? That's a huge downgrade in lineup potential Yelich would be switching to. I believe Yelich will really struggle this season in Miami. I do believe he'd do better here... but I think his performance in Pittsburgh this year would be less than it was in Miami last year and less than what McCutchen will be in SF this year.

Defensively, the Marlins ballpark (centerfield), is way smaller than our left field. I'm a little cautious when looking at defensive metrics because they look too subjective. But, last year Yelich as a -5 in runs saved where as Cutch was -15. He'd would likely be playing in LF if he were here and I'm not so sure that Yelich would really be all that much of an upgrade. Would he be a legit starter? Absolutely. But I'd temper my expectations on whether he'd be an upgrade over McCutchen.

In terms of years/control, yeah, he's clearly an upgrade there, but I think his biggest upgrade overall would be over Polanco IF Meadows earns a spot in Pittsburgh this season. Polanco has been very disappointing.


I would agree but I assumed Meadows would be part of any deal to get Yelich.


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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:18 pm 
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TBayXXXVII wrote:
In terms of years/control, yeah, he's clearly an upgrade there, but I think his biggest upgrade overall would be over Polanco IF Meadows earns a spot in Pittsburgh this season. Polanco has been very disappointing.


I would honestly trade GP instead of Meadows, if I could.

Yes, he is also 'cost controlled', only 26, and has gobs of potential, but he has underwhelmed. Although some of that underproduction is due to Marte's and Kang's suspension, etc., he could have helped and made up for those deficiencies by improving as an individual.

The Marlins would likely want Meadows since he fits their current "forever rebuild" strategy.

Realistically, Yelich probably won't be in black and gold next year either way.

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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:44 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
TBayXXXVII wrote:
In terms of years/control, yeah, he's clearly an upgrade there, but I think his biggest upgrade overall would be over Polanco IF Meadows earns a spot in Pittsburgh this season. Polanco has been very disappointing.


I would honestly trade GP instead of Meadows, if I could.

Yes, he is also 'cost controlled', only 26, and has gobs of potential, but he has underwhelmed. Although some of that underproduction is due to Marte's and Kang's suspension, etc., he could have helped and made up for those deficiencies by improving as an individual.

The Marlins would likely want Meadows since he fits their current "forever rebuild" strategy.

Realistically, Yelich probably won't be in black and gold next year either way.


Of course I would trad Polanco over Meadows.......but to get Yelich that isn't realistic.


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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:24 am 
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rellimie wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
TBayXXXVII wrote:
In terms of years/control, yeah, he's clearly an upgrade there, but I think his biggest upgrade overall would be over Polanco IF Meadows earns a spot in Pittsburgh this season. Polanco has been very disappointing.


I would honestly trade GP instead of Meadows, if I could.

Yes, he is also 'cost controlled', only 26, and has gobs of potential, but he has underwhelmed. Although some of that underproduction is due to Marte's and Kang's suspension, etc., he could have helped and made up for those deficiencies by improving as an individual.

The Marlins would likely want Meadows since he fits their current "forever rebuild" strategy.

Realistically, Yelich probably won't be in black and gold next year either way.


Of course I would trad Polanco over Meadows.......but to get Yelich that isn't realistic.


I don't disagree with the necessary compensation, I was just making my point on who I believe Yelich would really be the upgrade over. Heck, I'd give the Marlins both Meadows and Polanco for Yelich LOL. I don't think either will be a quality every day player for 4-6 years.


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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:27 pm 
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TBayXXXVII wrote:
I don't disagree with the necessary compensation, I was just making my point on who I believe Yelich would really be the upgrade over. Heck, I'd give the Marlins both Meadows and Polanco for Yelich LOL. I don't think either will be a quality every day player for 4-6 years.

Yelich was a speedy, low-power guy when he entered the NL at age 21. He hit 4 HR's in 1/2 a season, then 9 in a full season, then 7 in a full season. He posted more stolen bases (47) than HR's (20) his first 3 seasons in the league.

Be careful in giving up on players too early. Yelich is a pretty good example of that.


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 Post subject: Re: J T Realmuto
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
TBayXXXVII wrote:
I don't disagree with the necessary compensation, I was just making my point on who I believe Yelich would really be the upgrade over. Heck, I'd give the Marlins both Meadows and Polanco for Yelich LOL. I don't think either will be a quality every day player for 4-6 years.

Yelich was a speedy, low-power guy when he entered the NL at age 21. He hit 4 HR's in 1/2 a season, then 9 in a full season, then 7 in a full season. He posted more stolen bases (47) than HR's (20) his first 3 seasons in the league.

Be careful in giving up on players too early. Yelich is a pretty good example of that.


There's a difference between giving up on a player who was good enough to skip AAA and make the majors at 21 and giving up on a 26 year old who isn't really improving... and hasn't really been that good or a soon to be 23 year old who's oft-injured, still in AAA, and while in AAA amassed as sub .700 OPS in over 450 appearances.


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