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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:49 pm 
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The biggest issue with these trades is that they should have happened last off season, when the return would have been greater.


Or a roll of the dice and deal them at the trade deadline.

The Brewers spend 20 mil to get better. The Pirates shed 25 million and in both cases used the praises "trading Cole" and "trading Cutch" and "2018 playoffs" in the same paragraphs. The shit that comes out of their mouths is unbelievable. How fucking dumb do they think we are? Surely there isnt anyone on this board who thinks this team as it sits now will win 82 games. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? anyone?

This is bull shit! What they did to McCutchen. The face of the franchise. A guy who loved Pittsburgh more that Pittsburgh loved him. A guy who named his new born Steel. A GUY WHO PUT HIS TRUST IN THIS MANAGEMENT TEAM AND TOOK A DEAL THAT WAS TEAM FRIENDLY. WHAT A SUCKER! This Is absolutely tragic.

Something needs to be done about this bull shit! Go after the mayor. Go after the Governor. Tell them both that if they dont make the resort taxes so high in Seven Springs PA, that no one wants to go there unless the Nuttings sell or just simply compete, that they will lose votes.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:55 pm 
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They just signed their closer with that money. And who knows what they can get in the free agent market that has been near dead all winter.
Think Reggie Sanders, Kenny Lofton 2003 signings.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physica
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:00 pm 
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The Rotten One wrote:
Quote:
The biggest issue with these trades is that they should have happened last off season, when the return would have been greater.


Or a roll of the dice and deal them at the trade deadline.

The Brewers spend 20 mil to get better. The Pirates shed 25 million and in both cases used the praises "trading Cole" and "trading Cutch" and "2018 playoffs" in the same paragraphs. The shit that comes out of their mouths is unbelievable. How fucking dumb do they think we are? Surely there isnt anyone on this board who thinks this team as it sits now will win 82 games. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? anyone?

This is bull shit! What they did to McCutchen. The face of the franchise. A guy who loved Pittsburgh more that Pittsburgh loved him. A guy who named his new born Steel. A GUY WHO PUT HIS TRUST IN THIS MANAGEMENT TEAM AND TOOK A DEAL THAT WAS TEAM FRIENDLY. WHAT A SUCKER! This Is absolutely tragic.

Something needs to be done about this bull shit! Go after the mayor. Go after the Governor. Tell them both that if they dont make the resort taxes so high in Seven Springs PA, that no one wants to go there unless the Nuttings sell or just simply compete, that they will lose votes.


Meh, trading Cutch was the right move, they just waited too long.

The payroll will be what it will be until something changes. Nutting isn’t going to spend more than the team revenue and as the chairman of a Board of directors he is bound to group decisions on budgets to certain extent.

The only changes that would affect the team are

1. he buys out the investors and becomes the sole owner therefore putting all team budget decisions on him.

2. The team is sold so someone else or another group, however who knows if the next owner would be willing to take a loss and up the payroll to 130-140 million.

3. Increase ticket prices generate more revenue however you run the risk of pricing your fans out of the ballpark. The average income in western pa is one of the lowest in any of the major league markets.

4. Baseball institutes a salary cap.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:15 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:26 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:43 pm 
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I like Kyle Crick, but he was a top prospect three years ago!

Reynolds is a project.

Both of these deals are uninspiring. It's like since the Pirates missed with their talented corps that they drafted they've taken a more 'collective talent' strategy.

This is depressing.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:44 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
What’s interesting is that Marte, Polanco, and Cole never came close to their potential/ceiling.


Agreed.

rellimie wrote:
Maybe the next core will end up better than what they project.


This team has an A's/Brewers feel to it. Their ceiling seems like a wild card round.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:47 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
I like Kyle Crick, but he was a top prospect three years ago!

Reynolds is a project.

Both of these deals are uninspiring. It's like since the Pirates missed with their talented corps that they drafted they've taken a more 'collective talent' strategy.

This is depressing.


Isn’t that how it works though?

How many times have we screamed about how teams just seem to have these late round guys become stars and our can’t miss prospects that made up the “core” are still trying to figure it out.

Out of Cutch, Alvarez, Walker, Marte, Polanco, and Cole...Cutch is the only one that met his potential. Alvarez and Walker touched on it for a year or two, Cole had 1 season of dominance, Marte and Polanco just never became what they were projected to be.

Maybe it is all a bout grabbing as many as you can because in reality.....who really knows who is going to work out.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:14 pm 
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I actually think they got more for Cole than they did for Cutch. Shocked that all they got was a relief pitcher and minor league OF who hasn't progressed past single A yet. Wow! How do they expect people to actually pay money to go to a game? Ridiculous!


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:02 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
Maybe it is all a bout grabbing as many as you can because in reality.....who really knows who is going to work out.


That is absolutely the only way to play the game (or, more precisely, build a team).

The difference is, teams like Houston, Chicago (NL), Los Angeles (NL), and even Kansas City made WS and/or won them. Fruit was bared*. And those teams LOADED up on high-ceiling prospects; so if they fell a little short that ceiling was still high. This FO I now loading up on middle or 'specific' prospects (i.e. bullpen and maybe defense?).

That leaves less margin of error if those guys don't hit their limited ceilings; they HAVE to maximize their specific set of skills. It's understandable why NH is going this route, but... has it worked elsewhere? It's both very risky and likely to alienate the fan base. And is CH the manager for that kind of squad?

More questions than answers. It's going to be hard to be patient.



*Washington is like Pittsburgh in that they've tried and failed (somehow!). Tampa also failed, but they are a smaller market and they MADE a WS.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:05 pm 
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Deal is worst than we thought. A mediocre haul and they paid the Giants to take Cutch.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:52 am 
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MoTownWV wrote:
Deal is worst than we thought. A mediocre haul and they paid the Giants to take Cutch.

They said by throwing in the money it allowed the Pirates to take better players in the deal. Jesus Christ...what were they offering before that? A batboy and a used rosin bag?

TBMTIB


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:50 am 
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this front office sucks....

how can you treat your franchise player like that ? this deal is a joke ...

as a 30 years die hard fans i m very disappointed ... reminds me the cam bonifays ' days ....

cutch needed to stay in pittsburgh for making history and records ... it s so disgusting...


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:02 am 
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ESPN graded the Cutch Trade

C+ for the Giants
B for the Pirates

Quote:
You can debate the value of keeping a franchise icon beyond his prime years. From a strict baseball standpoint, however, it made sense to deal McCutchen. He's a free agent after the season, no longer has the range to play center field and is on the wrong side of a superb career. That probably doesn't make Pirates fans feel any better though. It could be a long time they see another face of the franchise as beloved as he was.


Quote:
If the return seems underwhelming, well, McCutchen's trade value just wasn't that high. Most teams are going to view him only as a corner outfielder, and while the bat rebounded in 2017 (.279/.363/.486), his mediocre 2016 factors into the return.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:27 am 
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Quote:
You can debate the value of keeping a franchise icon beyond his prime years. From a strict baseball standpoint, however, it made sense to deal McCutchen. He's a free agent after the season, no longer has the range to play center field and is on the wrong side of a superb career. That probably doesn't make Pirates fans feel any better though. It could be a long time they see another face of the franchise as beloved as he was.


If you are going to be a team that consistently loses. ( 3 seasons above .500 out of the last 25 years qualifies) Then you may as well have a face of the franchise. They could have made a run at Cutch. Offer him Rivero money. 4 years-40? He probably would have taken it. And please dont say Bell is the new face of the franchise. Please dont put that on him.

Forget the money....... They just took 25 home runs out of the line up. Does anyone here think that is going to be made up by any one of the clowns they got in the two trades they have made? Furthermore, does anyone seriously think they will go out and acquire those dingers? They wont.

When I explain to my friends what its like to be a Pirates fan, I tell them. Its painful. Its the only sports franchise besides the Browns that you know before spring training ever starts, that you are not playing for a division title much less a world championship.

So when the season starts we can forget what a bland starless team this is and go back to doing what we do. Blame Hurdle.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:34 am 
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I'm not in pain, and I haven't lost hope. I never liked the term face of the franchise, nor the concept. Cutch was our best player, but it made sense to trade him. The return was not that great because his value was not that high.

I would have been fine with trying to keep him, if they could do that without overpaying him. But it didn't go that way.

Now I hope they go get an outfielder.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:45 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
The return was not that great because his value was not that high.


You know where his value was high? Pittsburgh, PA.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:50 am 
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Quote:
I'm not in pain, and I haven't lost hope. I never liked the term face of the franchise, nor the concept.



There is way too much passion in baseball for a comment like that.




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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:06 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:13 am 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Ralphie wrote:
The return was not that great because his value was not that high.


You know where his value was high? Pittsburgh, PA.


You're right, he was worth more here. This just puts more pressure on the Pirates to win, because a bad situation has gotten a lot worse, in terms of PR.

I've already lost confidence in the guys running the show, so the only way they can change that is by winning.

Does Nutting even care? He rarely speaks, and when he does, you have no way of knowing if he is being honest.


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