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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:30 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Ralphie wrote:
The return was not that great because his value was not that high.


You know where his value was high? Pittsburgh, PA.


Sentimentality is the wrong reason to keep a guy past his prime.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:40 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
Ralphie wrote:
The return was not that great because his value was not that high.


You know where his value was high? Pittsburgh, PA.


Sentimentality is the wrong reason to keep a guy past his prime.


Isnt that something? The guy you trade because he is past his prime led the team in home runs. Led the team in batting average, was 2nd in OBP and 1st in slugging. He also had the highest OWar rating by more than 1.2. What does it say about the rest of your team when you call that guy past his prime?

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:08 pm 
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The return for McCutchen is absolutely inexcusable. A not so good relief pitcher and a fringe prospect for the face of the franchise, and the teams best player. All in the name of saving money. This trade was a salary dump.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
The return for McCutchen is absolutely inexcusable. A not so good relief pitcher and a fringe prospect for the face of the franchise, and the teams best player. All in the name of saving money. This trade was a salary dump.


Dont forget the 2.5 Million the Pirates are paying in Cutch dead money

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:32 pm 
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The Rotten One wrote:

Isnt that something? The guy you trade because he is past his prime led the team in home runs. Led the team in batting average, was 2nd in OBP and 1st in slugging. He also had the highest OWar rating by more than 1.2. What does it say about the rest of your team when you call that guy past his prime?


It says your best OF was suspended for 80 games, your young star was hurt most of the year, and your best power guy got an idiot DUI.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:49 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
The Rotten One wrote:

Isnt that something? The guy you trade because he is past his prime led the team in home runs. Led the team in batting average, was 2nd in OBP and 1st in slugging. He also had the highest OWar rating by more than 1.2. What does it say about the rest of your team when you call that guy past his prime?


It says your best OF was suspended for 80 games, your young star was hurt most of the year, and your best power guy got an idiot DUI.

ZM


The year before when your idiot drunkin third baseman, your best OF and your young start were all there, McCutchen still led in home runs.

Look... I get it. It is what it is. I'm going to defend McCutchen here. He deserves it. He's earned it. He's not past his prime. He's still got a lot of great baseball ahead. I'm certainly not betting against him. With out a doubt he is/was the Pirates best player. Most valuable? Maybe not. But best, without a doubt.

My biggest problem is the giant snow job the BMTIB constantly schemes. Trading our best pitcher. Then our best offensive player, all while telling us the team just got better? oh and the co-incidence of extending Rivero the same day. How dumb do they think we are? Or....How dumb are we?

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Chicks love the long ball.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:34 pm 
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If you don't think Cutch is past his prime I want some of what you're smoking.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Cutch better learn to take the ball to RF because the huge LF_CF area in SF are a graveyard for flyballs.... 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
The return for McCutchen is absolutely inexcusable. A not so good relief pitcher and a fringe prospect for the face of the franchise, and the teams best player. All in the name of saving money. This trade was a salary dump.


Agreed, except that it's better to get SOMETHING for Cutch than nothing (when he leaves next year).

The Pirates had no leverage.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:57 pm 
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I put zero stock in the garbage flowing out of the mouths of any of the Pirates brass. It means nothing and is worth nothing. They will have to have a winning team on the field to regain any credibility with me.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:01 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Ryann wrote:
The return for McCutchen is absolutely inexcusable. A not so good relief pitcher and a fringe prospect for the face of the franchise, and the teams best player. All in the name of saving money. This trade was a salary dump.


Agreed, except that it's better to get SOMETHING for Cutch than nothing (when he leaves next year).

The Pirates had no leverage.


Isn't he worth a compensation pick if he walks next year? I'd say that was more valuable than what they got.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:04 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
If you don't think Cutch is past his prime I want some of what you're smoking.


Technically true overall; absolutely true defensively.

Cutch, if on a team with complementary pieces, would still be a 24 HR/80-90 RBI/.275/2-3 WAR guy. His run production would likely still be high, and his SB might see an uptick if he were properly utilized.

His days as a decent CF are behind him, and it's unlikely that being the heart of a veteran San Fran squad hitting 81 games in the Bay Area will help his offensive stat line(s).

Cutch isn't an MVP anymore, but he can still show flashes of it. 2018 Cutch on the 2013 or 2014 Pirates would have been a top-5 [offensive WAR] player.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
Ryann wrote:
The return for McCutchen is absolutely inexcusable. A not so good relief pitcher and a fringe prospect for the face of the franchise, and the teams best player. All in the name of saving money. This trade was a salary dump.


Agreed, except that it's better to get SOMETHING for Cutch than nothing (when he leaves next year).

The Pirates had no leverage.


Isn't he worth a compensation pick if he walks next year? I'd say that was more valuable than what they got.


The comp pick would be contingent on a number of things. Furthermore, a draft pick takes WAY longer to develop than a AA/AAA-ball guy.

The Pirates clearly want to tread water to see HOW competitive they still are, or not. They're splitting the difference and not FULLY re-building.

Therefore flipping Cutch for a few guys who will get a cup of coffee makes complete sense. It sucks, but it's business.

P.S., The Pirates weren't likely to get a top-100 prospect for 2018 Cutch. It was a lose-lose-lose scenario.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:10 pm 
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They are not in rebuild mode? :lol:

How is this not a full rebuild? They traded their two best players for next to nothing in return. Purely to save money. If they wanted to tread water to see how competitive they would be they would have waited to make these moves in July. The fans should be outraged, not trying to justify another salary dump.

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:15 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:

The comp pick would be contingent on a number of things. Furthermore, a draft pick takes WAY longer to develop than a AA/AAA-ball guy.

The Pirates clearly want to tread water to see HOW competitive they still are, or not. They're splitting the difference and not FULLY re-building.

Therefore flipping Cutch for a few guys who will get a cup of coffee makes complete sense. It sucks, but it's business.

P.S., The Pirates weren't likely to get a top-100 prospect for 2018 Cutch. It was a lose-lose-lose scenario.


See, this. NM just stated what NH stated their philosophy would be coming over here. It is the Indians model that once you have built your first team, you keep rotating out the parts (earlier rather than later) so that you never go real bad. You build your own stars and get guys like from these trades to fill gaps. Current developed stars (in their minds) are Marte, healthy Polanco, Bell, and Taillon. Marte is already there based on 4 of his 5 years at MLB. Polanco has shown flashes when healthy and is still young and finally filling into his body type, Bell is scratching the surface, and the now healthy Taillon was considered equal or better than Cole (certainly my belief based on mental approach).

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:40 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:

The comp pick would be contingent on a number of things. Furthermore, a draft pick takes WAY longer to develop than a AA/AAA-ball guy.

The Pirates clearly want to tread water to see HOW competitive they still are, or not. They're splitting the difference and not FULLY re-building.

Therefore flipping Cutch for a few guys who will get a cup of coffee makes complete sense. It sucks, but it's business.

P.S., The Pirates weren't likely to get a top-100 prospect for 2018 Cutch. It was a lose-lose-lose scenario.


See, this. NM just stated what NH stated their philosophy would be coming over here. It is the Indians model that once you have built your first team, you keep rotating out the parts (earlier rather than later) so that you never go real bad. You build your own stars and get guys like from these trades to fill gaps. Current developed stars (in their minds) are Marte, healthy Polanco, Bell, and Taillon. Marte is already there based on 4 of his 5 years at MLB. Polanco has shown flashes when healthy and is still young and finally filling into his body type, Bell is scratching the surface, and the now healthy Taillon was considered equal or better than Cole (certainly my belief based on mental approach).

ZM

Please stop calling Marte a star. He is a cheater who plays with his head up his ass 90% of the time. For every head turning play he makes he commits 3 head scratching plays. His stupidity is more powerful than well...his actual power.


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:42 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Ryann wrote:
The return for McCutchen is absolutely inexcusable. A not so good relief pitcher and a fringe prospect for the face of the franchise, and the teams best player. All in the name of saving money. This trade was a salary dump.


Agreed, except that it's better to get SOMETHING for Cutch than nothing (when he leaves next year).

The Pirates had no leverage.

I’d have rather had one more year of Cutch than getting a project outfielder and our 815th relief pitcher...


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:18 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
Ryann wrote:
The return for McCutchen is absolutely inexcusable. A not so good relief pitcher and a fringe prospect for the face of the franchise, and the teams best player. All in the name of saving money. This trade was a salary dump.


Agreed, except that it's better to get SOMETHING for Cutch than nothing (when he leaves next year).

The Pirates had no leverage.

I’d have rather had one more year of Cutch than getting a project outfielder and our 815th relief pitcher...


:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Cutch trades to the Giants pending physical
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:41 pm 
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I'm out.

I get all the reasons for trading him that have been offered. But they're all shit. I fully cop to being a fair weather Pirates fan, but I have been a fan for almost 40 years now. And there have been some great times, but mostly, it was easily forgettable. And not being from Pittsburgh or having any connection to the area made it easier to treat the bad years as background noise.

But Cutch made being a Pirates fan fun again. I even came up to Pittsburgh last year for my 25th anniversary to catch my first Bucs games that weren't played at the Os or the Nats. It was awesome; I've been the biggest booster of all things Pitt for the past year. And it all started with Cutch.

And now he's gone and we got a frickin reliever for him. And what, the 5th ranked prospect from the worst farm system in baseball. And we're paying a quarter of his salary.

We have an owner who is crap and is out of his element. It's a sad story that plagues my soccer team and my football team, and I hung on with those teams for far too long. Those of you who live in Pittsburgh can better determine if Nutting even cares about Pittsburgh or the socio-cultural touchstone he purchased, but from where I sit, he sure as heck doesn't care about winning. And I'm not going to reward the team with my energy, interest or money.

I've enjoyed the past 4-5 years and my thanks to everyone here for largely civil convo of all things Pirates. I've learned a lot.

Cheers!


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