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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:19 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
abitoutside wrote:
Freese 3 mil
Jaso 4 mil
Niese 9 mil
Vogelsong 2 mil
Plus 18 million

Wow what a waste of resources. Cheap and stupid is no way to run a railroad.


I don’t see Freese as a waste. They don’t use him correctly.


They used him as they had to.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:25 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
rellimie wrote:
abitoutside wrote:
Freese 3 mil
Jaso 4 mil
Niese 9 mil
Vogelsong 2 mil
Plus 18 million

Wow what a waste of resources. Cheap and stupid is no way to run a railroad.


I don’t see Freese as a waste. They don’t use him correctly.


They used him as they had to.

ZM


I don’t disagree. Freese is an excellent spot starter/bench guy. The Kang stuff really stuck them.


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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:01 am 
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abitoutside wrote:
Freese 3 mil
Jaso 4 mil
Niese 9 mil
Vogelsong 2 mil
Plus 18 million

Wow what a waste of resources. Cheap and stupid is no way to run a railroad.


Freese is serviceable. No complaints.

Jaso was worth the risk. He had a track record of success to that point.

Niese and Vogelsong were... regrettable (to say the least).

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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:49 pm 
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I cut and pasted. Don’t want to throw Freese out with the trash and especially at that price. That was a good signing.


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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:37 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
abitoutside wrote:
Freese 3 mil
Jaso 4 mil
Niese 9 mil
Vogelsong 2 mil
Plus 18 million

Wow what a waste of resources. Cheap and stupid is no way to run a railroad.


Freese is serviceable. No complaints.

Jaso was worth the risk. He had a track record of success to that point.

Niese and Vogelsong were... regrettable (to say the least).


The only positive to the Niese trade is it got rid of Neil “I’m made of glass and Pittsburgh should just give me and my shitty defense a huge contract because I’m from here” Walker.


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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:06 pm 
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Quote:
The only positive to the Niese trade is it got rid of Neil “I’m made of glass and Pittsburgh should just give me and my shitty defense a huge contract because I’m from here” Walker


He would have been a good first baseman. ......On a different team

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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:59 am 
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rellimie wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
abitoutside wrote:
Freese 3 mil
Jaso 4 mil
Niese 9 mil
Vogelsong 2 mil
Plus 18 million

Wow what a waste of resources. Cheap and stupid is no way to run a railroad.


Freese is serviceable. No complaints.

Jaso was worth the risk. He had a track record of success to that point.

Niese and Vogelsong were... regrettable (to say the least).


The only positive to the Niese trade is it got rid of Neil “I’m made of glass and Pittsburgh should just give me and my shitty defense a huge contract because I’m from here” Walker.

For the life of me I don't understand the hatred towards this guy because he was from Pittsburgh. He wanted what the market said he was worth...blame baseball not Walker. And of course he wanted to continue to play in his hometown. But being from Pittsburgh he knows better than most that this owner isn't going to pony up money for anyone so I think he decided he wasn't giving them a hometown discount.

From a baseball standpoint I don't blame the Pirates for moving away from him. But I certainly don't hate the guy because he happens to be from Pittsburgh and like every other player EVER wanted what the system says is his worth. Or is it that he was vocal when management sat with their collective thumb up their ass while 3 playoff seasons came and went without making a meaningful move?


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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:11 am 
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"meaningful move".

uh, hu.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:32 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
abitoutside wrote:
Freese 3 mil
Jaso 4 mil
Niese 9 mil
Vogelsong 2 mil
Plus 18 million

Wow what a waste of resources. Cheap and stupid is no way to run a railroad.


Freese is serviceable. No complaints.

Jaso was worth the risk. He had a track record of success to that point.

Niese and Vogelsong were... regrettable (to say the least).


The only positive to the Niese trade is it got rid of Neil “I’m made of glass and Pittsburgh should just give me and my shitty defense a huge contract because I’m from here” Walker.


2016 per Fangraphs
Walker - 458 ABs 3.7 WAR
Harrison - 520 ABs 1.4 WAR

Walker was nothing but classy while he was a Pirate and after he left. He also performed. Trashing him with nonsense statements is childish.


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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Quote:
2016 per Fangraphs
Walker - 458 ABs 3.7 WAR
Harrison - 520 ABs 1.4 WAR

Walker was nothing but classy while he was a Pirate and after he left. He also performed. Trashing him with nonsense statements is childish.


Walker was a solid offensive player for the position he played. Nobody will argue that. However he was a statue at 2nd base and his back became an issue at inopportune times. A team like the Pirates cant keep a guy like that when depth is a real issue at times.

He was also a guy Pittsburgh could be proud of during the time he was here. It just became necessary for both sides to move on.

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Last edited by The Rotten One on Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:55 pm 
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Quote:
Their collective thumb up their ass while 3 playoff seasons came and went without making a meaningful move?



Not exactly:

Marlon byrd and Justin Morneau were meaningful moves

JA Happ and Aramis Ramirez were a meaningful moves


Just because the Pirates didnt pull the trigger on the David Price trade (and Im not sure it was the Pirates that stopped that) doesnt mean they didnt make a meaningful move.

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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:31 pm 
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The Rotten One wrote:
Quote:
2016 per Fangraphs
Walker - 458 ABs 3.7 WAR
Harrison - 520 ABs 1.4 WAR

Walker was nothing but classy while he was a Pirate and after he left. He also performed. Trashing him with nonsense statements is childish.


Walker was a solid offensive player for the position he played. Nobody will argue that. However he was a statue at 2nd base and his back became an issue at inopportune times. A team like the Pirates cant keep a guy like that when depth is a real issue at times.

He was also a guy Pittsburgh could be proud of during the time he was here. It just became necessary for both sides to move on.


That’s fine. I just felt it was a year too early. Instead of dealing him for Niese, just pay him the $10 million and let him walk at seasons end if he found a multi year deal elsewhere. Sign Happ or a comparable pitcher with the money you gave Vogelsong, Jaso and those other bums. Team would have been much deeper with Harrison as a super sub. Walker far outperformed what the Pirates had at 2B in 2016.


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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:46 pm 
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The Rotten One wrote:
Quote:
Their collective thumb up their ass while 3 playoff seasons came and went without making a meaningful move?



Not exactly:

Marlon byrd and Justin Morneau were meaningful moves

JA Happ and Aramis Ramirez were a meaningful moves


Just because the Pirates didnt pull the trigger on the David Price trade (and Im not sure it was the Pirates that stopped that) doesnt mean they didnt make a meaningful move.

Marlin Byrd was meaningful. ARam was an ok pick up. They got completely lucky with Happ. Morneau...nah. My point was they didn’t make a big move to push them over the top, ala the Astros with Verlander. NH didn’t want to part with his elite prospects, of which we now apparently have none anyway. Other teams go for it when the time comes. It doesn’t always work out, but they are trying to win when the opportunity is there. The Pirates...thumbs in ass.


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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:59 pm 
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Dudes- there are a couple of RELEVANT threads right below this one that you are all welcome to comment on. 2016 is O-V-E-R!


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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:40 am 
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abitoutside wrote:
Walker was nothing but classy while he was a Pirate and after he left. He also performed. Trashing him with nonsense statements is childish.


This. Walker helped make the Pirates relevant again, even if only for a short while.

Why hate him for deteriorating as a player, which he really hasn't, or moving on to get the playing time and/or pay day he deserves?

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:42 am 
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No one hates Walker. He is very well liked, and respected for being the good player that he is.


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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:02 pm 
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To suggest that Walker hasn't deteriorated as a defender is lunacy.


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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:49 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
To suggest that Walker hasn't deteriorated as a defender is lunacy.


And his range was never that good to begin with. He fits better as a third baseman at this point. Or maybe even first.


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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Why hate a FO for moving on from a guy who can't, and won't ever again, play close to a full season?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Cole Rumors
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
JollyRoger wrote:
To suggest that Walker hasn't deteriorated as a defender is lunacy.


And his range was never that good to begin with. He fits better as a third baseman at this point. Or maybe even first.


And his bat does not play well at 1st...


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