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 Post subject: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:17 pm 
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Just glancing around the league for fifth starters. Remember it's all relative to who the first four are as well.

NL Central:
Cubs - Sean Marshall
Cards - Joel Piniero
Brewers - Manny Parra
Astros - Russ Ortiz
Reds - Micah Owens
Bucs - Jeff Karstens

NL East:
Phillies - Chan Ho Park
Mets - Livan Hernandez
Marlins - Andrew Miller
Braves - Tom Glavine
Nats - Jordan Zimmerman

NL West:
Dodgers - James McDonald
Diamondbacks - Max Scherzer
Padres - Shawn Hill
Giants - Jonathan Sanchez
Rockies - Jorge De La Rosa

AL East:
Yankees - Joba Chamberlain
Red Sox - Brad Penny
Rays - Jason Hammel
Blue Jays - Scott Richmond
Orioles - Mark Hendrickson

AL Central:
Tigers - Rick Porcello
Indians - Scott Lewis
Twins - Glen Perkins
White Sox - Bartolo Colon
Royals - Sidney Ponson

AL West:
Angels - Dustin Moseley
A's - Brett Anderson
Mariners - Ryan Rowland-Smith
Rangers - Kris Benson

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:41 am 
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Gee, looking over that list I don't know if I should feel relieved that there are some other 5th starters as bad as Karstens or depressed to see a couple who would probably be our ace.


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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:11 am 
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Good work, bucco boy. The list includes some very talented pitchers, either coming off injury or simply not established in the majors yet: Jonathan Sanchez (who could win 12 games with a low ERA and quite a few K's), Max Scherzer, Joba Chamberlain, Brad Penny, Rick Porcello, Dustin Moseley, and Kris Bens... never mind.


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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:16 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Good work, bucco boy. The list includes some very talented pitchers, either coming off injury or simply not established in the majors yet: Jonathan Sanchez (who could win 12 games with a low ERA and quite a few K's), Max Scherzer, Joba Chamberlain, Brad Penny, Rick Porcello, Dustin Moseley, and Kris Bens... never mind.


Laugh now but i would add Sean Marshall of the Cubs to that list as one of the good #5's


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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:02 am 
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Without Divine intervention it sure looks like we are in serious trouble every fifth day. ---Maybe more often ===

Let's hope our guy Karsters shows some improvement as time goes on. Our pitching is certainly suspect as the opener approaches.

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:36 am 
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I've said it a million times the key to this staff is Gorzo. I'm not sure what all went in to their decision(attitude, lack of confidence, yea yea throwing strikes) but they need to get him on track. It looks like he had a nice start yesterday. I know throwing strikes is important but the thing that concerned me most with him was his velocity, according to reports, was down 3-4 mph from before. He is obviously a better choice for the rotation than Karstens, and when/if he gets himself right at least our #3 starter.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed because you guys are right this staff is weak. Two soft tossers who better hope teams hit it at our guys, a young guy who will most likely take some lumps learning his way, a head case who on any given day could be unhittable or complete garbage, and Maholm, a future all star. Two years ago Gorzo was our best pitcher...we definitely need that version of him back!


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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:37 am 
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bradf wrote:
Gee, looking over that list I don't know if I should feel relieved that there are some other 5th starters as bad as Karstens or depressed to see a couple who would probably be our ace.



I counted four that would be our ace. Great.

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:14 pm 
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I see no such pitcher.

I say let him pitch in the regular season a bit before crying a river.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:20 pm 
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Heres a question...

Who would you rather have in the rotation Karstens or Gorzo?

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:11 pm 
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Which Gorzo? Last year's and this Spring, or the "good" Gorzo.

Right now, Karstens. He throws strikes and has command in the K-zone. He's Josh Fogg part deaux. But, that ain't bad in my book for a 5th.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:16 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Which Gorzo? Last year's and this Spring, or the "good" Gorzo.

Right now, Karstens. He throws strikes and has command in the K-zone. He's Josh Fogg part deaux. But, that ain't bad in my book for a 5th.

ZM


I meant the Gorzo from this spring...

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:19 pm 
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I want 5 guys who throw strikes. It is better all around if they can, even if their stuff is hittable. At least they will hit it at the defense most of the time, and I like our defense up the middle this year.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:24 pm 
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I wouldnt want Gorzo back in the rotation til he proves he can get back to his 2007 self or he finds his ceiling

I dont mind Karstens in the rotation...

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:39 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Heres a question...

Who would you rather have in the rotation Karstens or Gorzo?


Geez, that's like asking me what I'd rather contract, syphilis or gonorrhea.


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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:29 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
I wouldnt want Gorzo back in the rotation til he proves he can get back to his 2007 self or he finds his ceiling

I dont mind Karstens in the rotation...


Let me know after a month of watching Karstens lob his fastball in there and have it get crushed.

And ZM, I agree throwing strikes is important, obviously, but you aren't going too far if all of your pitchers are "letting them hit it" and not striking at least a fair share of guys out.


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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:00 pm 
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Quite frankly, I see very few guys on that list that "strike out more than their share". I see a bunch of Jeff Karsten's, a bunch of Krissy's, and a bunch of disability checks...

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:41 pm 
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Some harsh criticism for a guy who nearly threw a no hitter last year.


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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:46 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Quite frankly, I see very few guys on that list that "strike out more than their share". I see a bunch of Jeff Karsten's, a bunch of Krissy's, and a bunch of disability checks...

ZM


Which of those groups do you place Zimmerman, Joba, Scherzer, etc in? I'm pretty sure I could put together a rotation based on those names bucco boy listed that would be better than the Pirates. That said, Karstens isn't the worst out there....


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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:48 pm 
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Pretty much the "I'll be on DL by June" list.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: 5th Starters
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:14 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Pretty much the "I'll be on DL by June" list.

ZM


You're saying you would rather have Karstens?


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