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 Post subject: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:11 am 
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After this road trip, which I expect to be a disaster, is complete, the off-day Monday would be a good day for Neil Huntingdon to dismiss Clint Hurdle as manager of the Pittsburgh Pirates.

I am not blaming Hurdle for all the team's woe's. Sometimes you need a change. Sometimes you need a new message. Sometimes you need to shake things up. No doubt Clint has not been the perfect manager and obviously has had his share of criticism, but the Pirates need to do something.

This is not a knee-jerk reaction either. For those who say Clint got this team to playoffs three straight years would be correct in giving him credit for that. But in today's sports world, that's ancient history.

I don't know if a change will shake them up or not. But this isn't about the wins and losses as much as it is about accountability, body language and fundamentals.

Anxious to hear some intelligent discussion from the UPPMB community.

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:20 am 
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I'm a little late to this party, but I think I am here now. It's hard to tell when a manager should go, because not only is he not the one who is playing the game, but you really don't know how he is running the club behind closed doors. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say. His questionable in-game managing aside, it just seems that he is too much a "player's manager," making excuses for inexcusable gaffes in the field instead of coming down hard. Bottom line, this team should be doing better than it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:26 am 
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I would support a change if they find somebody they really like. Gotta find somebody better, not just different.

Finally Polanco is back in right, where he should have been all along. Hopefully this is permanent. Now if they would just put Harrison back at second, that would go a long way towards settling the defense down.

I don't like the way Clint manages his bullpen, and he gets a big chunk of the blame for our problems with the running game.

And lastly, I'm really tired of hearing him talk.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:33 am 
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I've been thinking the same thing - that at the end of the road trip, Clint will be out. I'm not as down on Clint as some - he's had a good run, and is probably as good a man as there is in the game. But it's pretty obvious that it's time for a new voice.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
I would support a change if they find somebody they really like. Gotta find somebody better, not just different.

Finally Polanco is back in right, where he should have been all along. Hopefully this is permanent. Now if they would just put Harrison back at second, that would go a long way towards settling the defense down.

I don't like the way Clint manages his bullpen, and he gets a big chunk of the blame for our problems with the running game.

And lastly, I'm really tired of hearing him talk.


That man really loves his metaphors...


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:56 pm 
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not going anywhere and shouldn't.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 1:27 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
not going anywhere and shouldn't.

ZM


Why

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:03 pm 
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Because he's a good manager who knows this team. He'll be really good once his top 4 hitters play and hit.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:12 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Because he's a good manager who knows this team. He'll be really good once his top 4 hitters play and hit.

ZM


Maybe they're not playing/hitting [well] because of him.

CH is a "player's manager", but that's only a reputation and/or tag that you can afford to have and wear when your team is on the rise or GOOD.

If a team is playing like crap it can be quite indicative of a leadership problem.

It's the Glengarry Glen Ross "Nice guy? F you!" corollary at work. This is sports; you must Always Be Closing (TM).

CH can hit the bricks, pal and beat it 'cause you are GOING OUT!'

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:32 pm 
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I just want to ask Clint Hurdle one simple question.

"What do you guys even work on during Spring Training?"

Cause it sure isn't base running. It isn't bunting. It isn't running down fly balls. It isn't fielding ground balls. It sure as heck isn't situational hitting. What do they do for 2 months down in Florida?!?!?!?!


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:47 pm 
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When a team does not live up to expectations (by the way one of my least favorite words in the sports world)it is usually the head coach/manager who takes the heat, and in the Pirates' case it appears that will be the case. Hurdle's own body language seems to indicate he knows he is on the inferno seat, but how much of this is really his doing?

Look at the ridiculous roster he has been given to work with. If I count correctly, there are ten (yes 10!) rookies on the 25 man roster. Of those ten, one could argue that only Bell and Kuhl earned their spots. The others got their spots because of someone else's failures, injuries or in the case of Hansen because he was out of options. And by the way, how does a FO let that happen?

Should Hurdle be blamed for the rag-tag bunch he has to put on the lineup card every game? IMO no, but he most likely will not make it through May if this team continues to slide further below the expectation bar.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 4:15 pm 
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People have to stop making excuses for Hurdle. There's always an excuse for him, no matter what. Someone's huet. Someone's suspended. The ump sucked. His wife packed the wrong pudding.

There are no excuses for Hurdle. He continually mismanages the lineup, the bullpen, and sustitutions. His teams are always full of "streaky hitters"; whatever approach he's trying to enforce doesn't freaking work well consistently. His teams are always getting caught on the basepaths despite having a track team in his lineup. And rumor has it he puts pineapple on his pizza! He gotta go!


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 4:57 pm 
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clueless wrote:

Should Hurdle be blamed for the rag-tag bunch he has to put on the lineup card every game? IMO no, but he most likely will not make it through May if this team continues to slide further below the expectation bar.


I agree that he shouldn't be blamed for who is on the roster. But he should be blamed for starting Phil Gosselin numerous times.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:40 pm 
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I'm not a Hurdle detractor. Yeah, I question certain decisions but find myself doing that of other managers too.

But, I wrote to IA earlier this year and shared my opinion that managers have shelf lives. At some point, they just don't have same effect. I'll use my favorite football team as example. Chiefs were really successful early in Marty Scottenheimer's tenure. Then he seemed to lose the team. I'm just wondering if Hurdle has lost this team as well. You can't blame him for the lack of talent. But the team isn't playing sharp. Lots of mental mistakes. It seems to have lost an edge.

Can't help but wonder if Hurdle's shelf life has expired.

That written, if he were to manage again, I'd expect him to be successful.

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 8:27 pm 
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I feel Hurdle is doing a good job. If anyone should go, it should be some of talentless bums that wear the Pirate uniform.

They are all pros and should not need any motivation on winning.

They get paid big bucks to play in MLB.

It's the players that need to step up. If they don't have the balls to want to win, or the lack of talent to win, it's the players that should go first.

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:28 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
It's the players that need to step up. If they don't have the balls to want to win ...

Too soon, BD ... too soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:47 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:03 pm 
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I think it's early.
But he does need to shake things up. Sit McCutchen for a series again. Put him back in the lineup and bat him 7th.

I think a big problem with this team is McCutchen. He's turned into a diva but isn't close to pulling his weight.

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 Post subject: Re: Time for Clint Hurdle to go
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:30 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
I think it's early.
But he does need to shake things up. Sit McCutchen for a series again. Put him back in the lineup and bat him 7th.

I think a big problem with this team is McCutchen. He's turned into a diva but isn't close to pulling his weight.


Again, what has McCutchen done this season that makes him a diva?? He is struggling to hit. That doesn't make him a diva.


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